Originally Posted By sjhym333 I think you could get a Masters in Psych or Sociology by trying to answer this one. I am sure it stems from lots of places including children having children, the need of both parents working and leaving children to come home to empty houses for hours on end to television and movies, to so on and so on. But ultimately its because I think Americans have an entitlement mentality that makes people feel that just because they want something they should get it. I stand in supermarkets and see screaming children who are misbehaved and rude to their parents who do nothing to stop the behavior. Today I was on line at a store and the woman in front of me was so busy talking on her phone to a friend that she couldn't get her money out to pay her bill, even though there were long lines behind her. To bring it more on topic. There has been an ongoing discussion about homogenization of Disney as well as the type of guests that Disney now has. I believe that despite discounts and free food, there is a sense that a Disney vacation costs a lot of money and I am sure as heck going to get everything I deserve to make it good. So it doesnt matter that you sat on a curb on Main Street to see the parade. Someone will walk up and push their way in front of you. Not because they dont see you but because they feel that they should have a front seat. We all have examples of guests behaving as boobs thinking they are special in some way. My favorite is EMH in the evenings at the parks. I cant tell you how many times a guest will come up to a very popular attraction during EMH to find a long line and being surprised that there are lines and get a "dont you know they are a hotel guest" kind of attitude. As if they are the only hotel guest who has EMH privledges. And while I dont want to reignite the old FP debate, I believe FP plays into that entitlement attitude that guests have. But I dont believe that the reason you see it more at Disney is because Disney has begun attracting a certain group of people because of discounting, etc. I believe you are just seeing a microcosim of American culture that is amplified because of the large number of people in a small area and because people feel pressured to enjoy that vacation at all costs.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 ^^^^yes, yes, yes to all of this. Especially the last paragraph, as this is a Disney thread!
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<I believe you are just seeing a microcosim of American culture that is amplified because of the large number of people in a small area and because people feel pressured to enjoy that vacation at all costs.>> Exactly! You see it when people are dragging their obviously exhausted children around the parks, when those children should be back in the room in their pjs, snug in their beds. That YouTube video with the bus driver being throttled is the perfect example: I'm here, I want it done this way, and you're going to do it the way I want it whether you like it or not. It abounds outside of Disney, too: the people who have been carted to jail for assaulting fast food employees because they couldn't get the food they wanted when they wanted it or, in my own personal experience, the woman who decided she was going to board a SW flight from Little Rock ahead of her scheduled boarding group and started screaming and cursing at the gate attendant for enforcing the rules. It's everywhere. There is no such thing as common courtesy any more. Too many people think they are more important than everyone else. It's narcissism at it's very worst.
Originally Posted By Manfried "///The idea to flip the drop so it comes at the end was not a good design decision at all./// Why do you say that? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but could you expand on that?" Because "Pirates of the Caribbean" is not about drops and splashdowns. The idea of the waterfall was twofold, one to get under the railroad, and two to take you metaphorically into another place, where thar be pirates. And the Disneyland Pirates has just as much detail as the Paris one.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I wasn't going to comment on this aspect of the thread again, but since Spirit commented I want to clarify some things. My post was never intended to single out the Spirit or indicate that I thought he was the worst "offender". I used his remark about people dragging coolers through the lobby of a deluxe because it was a good example of what I was talking about and one that I remembered... nothing more than that. I like the Spirit and consider him an online friend. I think he is very knowledgeable about WDW and usually like hearing what he has to say. At times he sounds a little impressed with himself but I can overlook that because frankly I think he has a right to be. It is really because I generally hold the Spirit in high regard that it bothers me when he makes comments that appear to denigrate people from a certain part of the country or economic status. I'd like to think that type of comment was beneath him. Maybe he is joking and I have misread him... if so the occasional use of a smiley would sure help! I hope the Spirit understands that I never intended to take the thread in an anti-Spirit direction. I was talking in general about a certain tone that I found insulting in some posts and it was not directed personally at him. Except for having a blind spot a mile wide when it comes to DVC, ;-) I think the Spirit is generally a good guy. As I said, when he makes comments apparently directed against certain groups of people it bothers me primarily because I think he is better than that. It is kind of like being with a buddy who makes a cringe-inducing comment in public. You wonder what the heck would make him say something like that, but you still consider him your buddy anyway. So that is enough about that. I am always happy to read email from the Spirit if he would like to contact me in that way. Anyone up for a couple of verses of Kumbaya?
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad >>>Anyone know why this has happened?<<< I work retail and I think part of the problem is the retail mantra, "The customer is always right." It is not true and it sets up a relationship where unrealistic demands are tolerated and the workers on the front line are defenseless. A customer can treat the worker any way they like and then when it gets to management they will be given a coupon and an apology. In our current retail system we reward the customer for bad behavior while devaluing the workers. This causes the superiority complex where the worker is viewed as ignorant and powerless which leads to frustration and a lack of caring. Second, We don't make anything here anymore. We don't proudly make a product of quality and then sell it for ourselves. In general we sell what someone else has made and if it breaks throw it away and buy another. We view accomplishment through money. Is the NBA player really worth more than the family Dr. or the farmer? We now look down on the people who make things. Thus the "redneck" insults. But to me it isn't an insult. Redneck is about hard work, family, friends, community and self sufficiency. None of that is insulting. It is what our nation was founded on. I would be proud to be called a redneck.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I work retail and I think part of the problem is the retail mantra, "The customer is always right." It is not true and it sets up a relationship where unrealistic demands are tolerated and the workers on the front line are defenseless*** Well, I do agree with you that it's not (always) true...but the notion is a sound one and it's not so cut and dried (part of the problem is that executives TREAT it as "cut and dried", I would say). In general, keeping in the back of your mind "the customer is always right" when interacting with a customer is a good idea. That doesn't mean that abuse should be tolerated by ANYONE (customer OR employee, and in my lifetime I've seen BOTH). If someone is being unreasonable they should be referred to a manager. If the manager can't satisfy the customer, they should be politely asked to leave after being given a refund or whatever else the retailer can do to mitigate the situation.
Originally Posted By Mr X the notion is a sound one THOUGH it's not so "cut and dried", is what I would have edited my post to say.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<I like the Spirit and consider him an online friend. I think he is very knowledgeable about WDW and usually like hearing what he has to say. At times he sounds a little impressed with himself but I can overlook that because frankly I think he has a right to be.>> I have zero respect for people who are impressed with themselves, and this is part of the problem that we are talking about on this board right now. Too many people think they have certain privileges for whatever reason they've invented in their heads. I don't excuse Spirit, or ANYONE, for having such an attitude. I don't respect pretension n anyone, and I don't think anyone has earned a "right" to it.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>^^^^^So ironic that THAT post would appear in THIS thread...(snicker)<<<< Isn't it?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>But EE is it happening in other countries or just here? And what happened to make us become that way?<<< I'd think that it's widespread, but more prevalent where there's technology, honestly. That's the catalyst for everything.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Because "Pirates of the Caribbean" is not about drops and splashdowns. The idea of the waterfall was twofold, one to get under the railroad, and two to take you metaphorically into another place, where thar be pirates. And the Disneyland Pirates has just as much detail as the Paris one.<<< Right, and I would think that the WDW version does that quite well with it's caves, queue, and catacombs.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer And...REALLY, can we get off the whole deal of discussing the merits of how we post? Because a lot of this is making SOME of us very uncomfortable, and honestly we don't go online to read about dirty laundry being aired, your preferences on how social interactions should take place, and just the general drama report. I'm here for Disney news and discussion, not MTV. Again, there's always ways to do this privately..
Originally Posted By jkayjs Wow boy do you miss a lot when you come late to the dance. I'm not even going to try to read this whole thing. You know it's going to be a wild ride when you see 'admins'! For the OP~ <<Could someone clear up why WDW is so "bad"?>> It's not! Are there things that need to be addressed? You bet & those of us that love WDW hope to see that happen. But does it keep me from going & enjoying? No,but it also doesn't preclude that I'll never mention issues that bother me. A healthy debate never hurt anyone & that is where these discussions should stay. There is no place for personal attacks but they happen anyway. Does anything that gets said on these boards really bother me? Absolutely not. My profession forces me to deal with the worst & best life & humanity has to offer. This is my escape & trust me it's easy to put what's said here in perspective. I'ld say this is the last I have to say on this subject but then if decide to post again that would just make me look silly.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Very true I think the really longtime posters on LP usually get that "Pass" because we have become familiar with the good & bad sides of their opinions and so familiar with their humor we do not realize that attitude might be offending someone else. I usually try to focus on the information that is mixed in with the words which often does include gossip and attitude.This is making me aware of things about my real life I need to change so I am glad this is being discussed from all viewpoints.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>There is no such thing as common courtesy any more. Too many people think they are more important than everyone else. It's narcissism at it's very worst.<< In general, I would agree with this. I'm sure all of us have these exact conversations with our friends and family. But here's the part that concerns me - If we are all feeling this way and discussing it with each other, who are the "other" folks that are behaving this way? It seems that it pretty much has to include ourselves. So then I am forced to look at my own behavior and see what part of it I am. And I don't know. On the surface, I don't see myself that way. But too many of us think this behavior is from someone else for it not to have to include ourselves. So I am still missing what's really going on.
Originally Posted By danyoung >And...REALLY, can we get off the whole deal of discussing the merits of how we post? Because a lot of this is making SOME of us very uncomfortable...< I'd have to say at this point that if you're uncomfortable with the discussion, then don't read it. There has been a very organic motion in this thread, first asking why some people think WDW is such a bad place, then moving to those who don't think it's bad, and finally critiqueing those who are the most negative about WDW. No one is calling names, and most posts have been very thoughtful and reasoned. I think it's been a great discussion that many of us can learn from, which is what these boards are all about!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^^^ Yeah, I'm managing. LOL. >>>>In general, I would agree with this. I'm sure all of us have these exact conversations with our friends and family. But here's the part that concerns me - If we are all feeling this way and discussing it with each other, who are the "other" folks that are behaving this way? It seems that it pretty much has to include ourselves. So then I am forced to look at my own behavior and see what part of it I am. And I don't know. On the surface, I don't see myself that way. But too many of us think this behavior is from someone else for it not to have to include ourselves. So I am still missing what's really going on. <<<< It's that, too. We are all guilty of it at some point. The issue is, keeping it in control, being self aware, and tempering the "use" of it. IMO.
