What is so bad?

Originally Posted By HokieSkipper

<<Ahhh... the critics don't like criticism. It's a little different when your own ox is being gored...

I said that I engaged in a little overstatement to make my point. I think I clearly made it. >>

Huh?

 

Originally Posted By Expo_Seeker40

My issue with WDW is that it's 1970s infrastructure is starting to catch up with it's 40 year age. This isn't current management's fault..but they need to keep a close eye on things such as the TTC and others.

My biggest issue is the merchandise...too much of it...everywhere...all over MK and EC especially. Very little theming...you can buy princess tiaras in tomorrowland over my space mountain now...and main street is one giant shopping mall with just a few unique things left on it.

Yes main street looks great with it's freshly painted facades, yes the castle dream lights were a welcome addition to the christmas season...yes the moving character mouths with blinking eyes are awesome, yes downtown disney needs new stores and restaurants, but the times squarish commercialism that has seeped into WDW more than DL is bothersome to me and something I don't like when going to WDW.

I like WDW, enjoy going to it, but Universal and even somewhat sea world are starting to catch up on it in different ways. No...sea world and universal aren't building their versions of the MK...but they are using quality and other features TDO of yesteryear once prided itself on.

oh and I'm staying in the bay lake tower for my first time this december....I don't hate DVC and I don't hate the bay lake tower...but if I had to design at disney's request for dvc...I'd have demolished both garden wings and made a bay lake north and bay lake south...so with the contemporary being 14 stories...bay lake north and south would be 7 story versions of the 16 story version that is there right now...would be much better than the garden wings...would flank the central tower...but still not compete with the central tower.

 

Originally Posted By leobloom

>> Why the Jonas Brothers and Hannah Montanna merchandise at the exit to Space Mountain? I don't know... do you think it is maybe because the Arcade is a favorite spot for teens and pre-teens to gather, and that is the type of merchandise they are interested in? <<

No, it's because in the future Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus will be considered "oldies but goodies." (Cue Marty McFly: "It's an oldie where I come from.")

Oh, and you gotta check out the totally in-theme zero-G restrooms next to Space Mountain. Classic Disney detail.

 

Originally Posted By leobloom

>> However, if you were that incensed, I would hope you and the person in question could settle the issue, in private, at least. <<

My guess is righteous indignation doesn't play as well in private.

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

Personal problems?

Noting an underlying elitism in SOME critical posts is a "personal problem"? Sorry, but I think it is a fact that some of the critics undoubtedly preferred WDW when the overall experience was more upscale. I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I for instance certainly preferred air travel when that experience was more upscale. But if that is where someone is coming from, why not admit it?

Instead of constantly harping about DVC why not just say "I liked WDW when it was a little more exclusive" and leave it at that? Even the terms thrown around like "Wal-Marting" of merchandise and "dumbing down" the menus smacks of elitism.

If you prefer an upscale WDW just come out and say so!

Why is Disneyland different and why can it be successful and continue to maintain a little more upscale feeling? It is a totally different market. Most of the visitors are local and are day visitors. They have no need to buy lodging or dine on Disney property. If people don't want to spend $350 per night at the Grand Californian they can stay at the HoJo's down the street for $80. Disneyland is able to keep the on-property experience a little more upscale because most of it's guests don't need it to be as affordable as the relatively captive audience at WDW does.

 

Originally Posted By leobloom

>> Unfortunately most of the merch in recent years falls into the second category. T-shirts that fade within months of purchase, poor quality souvenirs, etc. And all are still way more expensive then they deserve to be. <<

No, no, Hokie. WDW sent me a letter telling me that I would cherish their merchandise for years to come.

*drinks purple drank from Tinkerbell sippy cup*

Yes, I will cherish this merchandise for years...decades...centuries to come.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>oh and I'm staying in the bay lake tower for my first time this december....I don't hate DVC and I don't hate the bay lake tower...but if I had to design at disney's request for dvc...I'd have demolished both garden wings and made a bay lake north and bay lake south...so with the contemporary being 14 stories...bay lake north and south would be 7 story versions of the 16 story version that is there right now...would be much better than the garden wings...would flank the central tower...but still not compete with the central tower.<<<<


That's actually a really inspired idea. And something that evokes the original Contemporary. Great idea.

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

<<No, no, Hokie. WDW sent me a letter telling me that I would cherish their merchandise for years to come.>>

You gotta be kidding me. I certainly never got that letter!

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>Noting an underlying elitism in SOME critical posts is a "personal problem"? Sorry, but I think it is a fact that some of the critics undoubtedly preferred WDW when the overall experience was more upscale. I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I for instance certainly preferred air travel when that experience was more upscale. But if that is where someone is coming from, why not admit it?

Instead of constantly harping about DVC why not just say "I liked WDW when it was a little more exclusive" and leave it at that? Even the terms thrown around like "Wal-Marting" of merchandise and "dumbing down" the menus smacks of elitism.

If you prefer an upscale WDW just come out and say so! <<<


So your criticism of of us is based in the fact that we want to see quality, and the very best in Disney?

That's elitism?

OK.


I'm an elitist for everything. I want to take pride in things again, have the best things, and not compromise quality and creativity for dumbing down.

What's so bad about that?

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

<<That's actually a really inspired idea. And something that evokes the original Contemporary. Great idea.>>

I also think it would have been a great idea. Unfortunately I also think it would have led to another whole round of DVC-bashing for removing the more affordable rooms from the Contemporary hotel.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>>Yes, I will cherish this merchandise for years...decades...centuries to come.<<<<


I cherish merch from the 70's and 80's I get off of eBay.

 

Originally Posted By leobloom

Wonder if the people who are so sensitive to WDW criticism are annual guests, guests who travel more than 400 miles, guests who first visited WDW in the past 15 years, or locals. Would be interesting to know if there are any generalities there. I think a lot of Central Floridians, especially people who have worked at the World for many years, recognize WDW isn't what it used to be. Maybe if I traveled 600 miles to WDW, I would be more forgiving so that I wouldn't feel like I was getting hosed by the Mouse. Of course, there's also the possibility that spending some time in Central Florida is preferable to living in...say, Louisiana, in which case maybe some of the people sensitive to WDW criticism ("don't say that, Mickey has feelings, too, y'know!") are just happy to be eating hamburgers somewhere that isn't their hometown.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>I also think it would have been a great idea. Unfortunately I also think it would have led to another whole round of DVC-bashing for removing the more affordable rooms from the Contemporary hotel. <<<

Nope.

Not from me. My issue with the DVC addition to the 'Temp is just based on the the fact that BLT looks like some crappy building I can see on Miami Beach. It's uninspired.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>I also think it would have been a great idea. Unfortunately I also think it would have led to another whole round of DVC-bashing for removing the more affordable rooms from the Contemporary hotel. <<<

Nope.

Not from me. My issue with the DVC addition to the 'Temp is just based on the the fact that BLT looks like some crappy building I can see on Miami Beach. It's uninspired.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>Wonder if the people who are so sensitive to WDW criticism are annual guests, guests who travel more than 400 miles, guests who first visited WDW in the past 15 years, or locals. Would be interesting to know if there are any generalities there. I think a lot of Central Floridians, especially people who have worked at the World for many years, recognize WDW isn't what it used to be. Maybe if I traveled 600 miles to WDW, I would be more forgiving so that I wouldn't feel like I was getting hosed by the Mouse. Of course, there's also the possibility that spending some time in Central Florida is preferable to living in...say, Louisiana, in which case maybe some of the people sensitive to WDW criticism ("don't say that, Mickey has feelings, too, y'know!") are just happy to be eating hamburgers somewhere that isn't their hometown.<<<<

I agree with that notion entirely. And the fact that Disney ISN'T what is once was, even for "quasi" locals, like myself, says a lot about their quality, and above all, value and prices.

Used to visit a TON more in the 90's, when it was cheaper.

Now? We average about once a year.


But there's always a want to go.

 

Originally Posted By leobloom

>> My issue with the DVC addition to the 'Temp is just based on the the fact that BLT looks like some crappy building I can see on Miami Beach. It's uninspired. <<

Correction: Miami Beach has more inspired architecture than the BLT.

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

<<So your criticism of of us is based in the fact that we want to see quality, and the very best in Disney?>>

No. That is fine. I would just like to see some acknowledgment that returning WDW to what existed 30 years ago would once again make it unaffordable for many families looking to have a on-property Disney experience. Recognize that somewhat decreased quality has also increased accessibility, and recognize that there may be some value in that trade-off.

I'm sure we would all like a Fillet Mignon WDW at a McDonalds price. But we also know that just ain't possible. So when you are lamenting about perceived decreases in quality remember the trade-offs that are involved.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

Oh...and ...A thought related to that last post...

Over the summer we had the opportunity to go to Boston..but only if we drove. We chose to do so, seeing that Boston is a incredible city and opportunity to actually see what I'm so interested in - American History.

That LONG 3 day drive was painful... But worth it.

Would I put that same worth on a drive to Disney? Nope. Never. WAY too much, just for that.

And honestly, it hurts to say that. Disney is (was) a great company, but as it stands, too much is not right with them for me to justify all that travel. Maybe if it was the Disney of my childhood, but now? Nope.

Thankfully, I'm in Miami, so that 3 day trek seems like 3 mins, when it's really taking 3 hours to get there LOL.. I suspect the ride will feel even quicker in December.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>Correction: Miami Beach has more inspired architecture than the BLT.<<<

Totally! Art Deco! It's very nice down there, but I wish we had more intact.

 

Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

>>>No. That is fine. I would just like to see some acknowledgment that returning WDW to what existed 30 years ago would once again make it unaffordable for many families looking to have a on-property Disney experience. Recognize that somewhat decreased quality has also increased accessibility, and recognize that there may be some value in that trade-off.<<<

I see nothing wrong with that.


Says the person that always stays off site.