Originally Posted By avimagine You know I wonder if they should bring to WDW Aunt Jamima's Waffle House Or a certain Don something or other Banjo or Maybe a Sunkist something or other
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Lol Mark. It is interesting, I do wonder if there are some good alternative models out there. Maybe only offer free dining at a limited number of restaurants. Or one deal I always thought would be good is what they do at DLP, they will often offer a stay 4 nights, get the 5th free deal. If they feel they need to offer a sweetener, that could be it. Personally I liked the perks in 2000 - free package delivery to room (we were in a moderate), frequent bus service, a couple of free gifts, a voucher for a special experience, and decent EMH offerings. at the time, it seemed worth paying the premium to stay on site. People will pay more if the service and quality is good.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>We called to book our Oct WDW trip and the CM advised us that there would be no free dining this year. I know they say that every year, so I asked him if that was really true. He said that last year they lost money over it. A) I don't think he was supposed to tell me that B) How in the heck could that be true?<< In corporate speak "losing money" means that you didn't hit your target profit numbers. It doesn't necesarily mean that you're running a net loss. Of course, removing the free dining plan could mean even bigger profit slippage. WDW has painted itself into a corner, just as automakers did with huge rebates. They have trained their customers to expect a discount and when that discount is withheld a sizeable number of customers slam their wallets shut and wait for it to return.
Originally Posted By Indigo Disney is losing money in certain restaurants with the Free Dining Plan. However they do make it up at other locations. I know they're studying what to do about it, but I don't believe they'll ever be able to take the dining plans off the table due to the advantage it provides in filling up hotels in the slower months. The odd thing is they dug themselves this hole by building so many DVC rooms. Now, those families who know they regularly visit WDW are locked in. So to fill the non-DVC rooms, Disney has to offer progressively better incentives. I think there are other things they could do besides free dining (which has messed up their dining system), but the question is what.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 They're losing money? Sure. That's why they're offering 'free dining' during much of 2011 ... recall when they first offered it (2005 or 06) it was simply a mid-August to 10/1 deal to cover the slowest part of the year, as well as the height of hurricane season right after Orlando had its worst hurricane season (2004) in modern history. Now, there are folks at WDW right now chowing down for 'free' ... and there are free periods right on through the rest of the fiscal year. I am sure with the way they play with numbers (does anyone actually believe Disney hasn't used much of the Ponzi scheme models that Wall Street has made the backbone of our economy?), they can make it look like locations are losing money. I just don't buy it. Take a look at their ridiculous price points. In the worst economy since the Great Depression (I could argue things are actually worse now since we don't manufacture anything now and you know have multiple generations living in homes where before they'd be homeless etc, but I won't) Disney somehow believes that folks should pay $25 for a veggie entree in a theme park restaurant. They have to keep raising prices, so they can make the DDP more attractive ... free is obviously the most attractive.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The odd thing is they dug themselves this hole by building so many DVC rooms. Now, those families who know they regularly visit WDW are locked in. So to fill the non-DVC rooms, Disney has to offer progressively better incentives. I think there are other things they could do besides free dining (which has messed up their dining system), but the question is what.>> Oh good lord... DVC gets dragged in again. The TOTAL number of DVC units on WDW property (including the recently opened Bay Lake Tower) is 2,839. The opening of Pop Century ALONE added 2,880 rooms to WDW. Yet it is all DVC's fault. Right. DVC represents about 10% of the total Disney owned rooms at WDW.
Originally Posted By avimagine Naw it's not DVC it's just DVCers specifically from the Northern States or something
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>Oh good lord... DVC gets dragged in again. The TOTAL number of DVC units on WDW property (including the recently opened Bay Lake Tower) is 2,839. The opening of Pop Century ALONE added 2,880 rooms to WDW. Yet it is all DVC's fault. Right. DVC represents about 10% of the total Disney owned rooms at WDW.<< I do not understand the sensitivity to the DVC comments, as though it is a direct disparraging of the owners themselves. Who care? But since you do, and we enjoy your discussions, I think that we can try to clarify better that it is a room capacity issue in general, not just DVC. Unfortunately, most of the recent resort building has been DVC. When it appears that there is already a capacity issue, that tends to draw ire upon DVC. The animation (or whatever it is) resort that is supposed to be coming is only filling an already built vacant eyesore, right? So there seems to be a bit more legitimacy there. Especially since it broadens the family suite offerings which are slim. Otherwise, it seems crazy to be building more rooms of ANY kind when it is obviously tough to keep the ones they have filled. Not sure why this is so offensive an idea to DVC owners. Don't you want Disney keeping up a vibrant resort for you to visit annually?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Not sure why this is so offensive an idea to DVC owners. Don't you want Disney keeping up a vibrant resort for you to visit annually?> It is offensive because DVC is being blamed for something it has little or nothing to do with. Occupancy rates for WDW's cash resorts run between 85 and 90 percent. For the DVC resorts it is close to 100%. Let's face it... DVC has a captive audience. In both good times and bad you are going to make that annual trip to WDW because you are paying for it whether you go or not. Not so with the people paying cash... times get tough and they stop coming. So Disney tries to lure them with free dining etc. I certainly DO want WDW to remain a vibrant resort. And I truly feel that the repeat customer base provide by DVC'ers helps that rather than hinders it.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 That surprises me for DVC occupancy rates. They have seemed to offer special rates on OKW and SS so often, one would think they have trouble filling those rooms. Either way, the point isn't what the occupancy rates are. The point is that there are now so many rooms on WDW property that there has to be continual discounting to fill them. I don't think that you could equate filling 50 rooms at full price of $100, to filling 100 rooms at half price of $50, even though both would net you $5000 and get you a 100% occupancy rate. It takes far more of your budget to do mainitenance, upkeep, cleaning, etc. in the second scenario. So whether it is DVC, value, suites, deluxe or whatever, more rooms on Disney property is a problem. Lately, those rooms have been DVC. Heck, converting the hotels you currently have to DVC straight up would be better than building any more rooms of any kind. It's not DVC vs. other hotel rooms.
Originally Posted By avimagine You mean like Disney overbuild based on a. A non six-sigma this quarters profit at the expense of everything economy. b. A continually improving economy c. No one would stay at Good Neighbors or down I drive or vacation villa rentals in Kissimee?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Either way, the point isn't what the occupancy rates are. The point is that there are now so many rooms on WDW property that there has to be continual discounting to fill them.>> DVC rooms are RARELY discounted. Most of the time available has been sold, and time not used by owners rents very quickly. A reservation at the Boardwalk Villas is probably one of the hardest reservations to get at WDW. OKW and SS have greater availability and do offer discounts. That is probably due to their huge size and the fact that unlike the other DVC locations neither one is near a Theme Park. Also, since DVC re-sales for OKW and SS are available at attractive prices, many people buy points at those resorts with no intention of actually using them there. Is that bad for Disney? No way. When a unit is not being used by an owner Disney gets to rent it out. In effect Disney is renting the room twice... once to the owner who has paid in advance, once to the cash guest. Even if the cash price is heavily discounted Disney still comes out like a bandit. When it comes to ability to fill rooms, I think it is very telling that when Disney was having major occupancy problems with the AKL what did they do? They converted the upper two floors to DVC units. DVC brings higher occupancy PLUS the DVC owners, not Disney, pay the maintenance expense. So while I agree that WDW may have too many hotel rooms, I don't think DVC has impacted that one way or the other. WDW had too many hotel rooms before the DVC additions; it still has too many hotel rooms. But you cannot say that if the DVC rooms had not been built the situation would be better. The two markets are very different. DVC turns the person who had been a cash visitor once every two to three years into an annual visitor. Without DVC they would not be staying at the Disney cash resorts. They would be staying home.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 ^^^Not sure I understand. I am simply saying that Disney rooms used to command a premium simply for the advangtage those rooms had of proximity and immersion. They were a limited and desired commodity, so Disney could fill them without discounting like crazy. Now that there are so many rooms of ANY kind, it necessitates WDW spending many more resources (time/money/personnel) on running that portion of the business. I understand that the plan was to make every visitor to the park's entire budget captive to Disney profit centers. However, that same plan requires massive resources to execute. There is strain being put on transportation, as well as the parks. And it seems that in tough times, those extra rooms become an albatross.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>But you cannot say that if the DVC rooms had not been built the situation would be better. The two markets are very different. DVC turns the person who had been a cash visitor once every two to three years into an annual visitor. Without DVC they would not be staying at the Disney cash resorts. They would be staying home.<< I understand your point. But I guess to me, it seems that DVCers are the EXACT folks who would be staying on property in the existing hotels if there were no DVC to compete. True Disney fans who will pay a premium for an excellent experience. And if the DVC model is preferable to the cash guest model (which certainly may be, as I have no idea), then I still maintain that it would be a good option to do more conversions than additions.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<There is strain being put on transportation, as well as the parks.>> I thought you might be interested in knowing... Through annual dues, The Boardwalk Villas DVC members will pay $1,460,023 for transportation in 2011. Boardwalk has 383 units. Figuring 365 days per year with 98% occupancy that works out to 136,999 unit days. That means DVC members pay $10.66 per unit per day for transportation expense. Whether we use our points that year or not. Whether we use Disney transportation or drive our own car. I'd say we are covering our costs.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I still maintain that it would be a good option to do more conversions than additions.>> That would be fine with me. I'll put money down right now for my DVC points at the Poly! Remember, DVC's three most recent projects were at least partially conversions. The 295 units in Bay Lake Tower replaced the 250 rooms in the North Garden Wing. The 134 Jambo House units at Animal Kingdom Villas were converted from AKL rental rooms. The Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa replaced the Villas at Disney Institute. Of course when people talk about DVC expansion they tend to forget that...
