Originally Posted By avromark Keep in mind I am not a lawyer or car sales person just a buyer like others here, so I may be wrong on some points as it pertains to you, the point I was trying to make is be careful about anything you sign. Me I'm a cash buyer, for me even if I don't save money it's much simpler. Sometimes your banks may offer better financing. Remember even if purchase price is the same, there is a difference between 6.5% and 8.9% interest. Take all advice given with a grain of salt.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Hey avromark... I'm sorry if I came off too strong ... But (at least for me) .. I can't have anything less than the most proven reliable car on the road. And sooo many American cars have failed .. over and over again .. decade after decade. I generally keep a car 10 years. And I have to have the one car that is going to be the least costly in repairs and maintainance. Who has the money .. or who wants the aggravation of break-downs? But ... I always APPRECIATE hearing stories, like your Taurus that made it through 300 thousand. Between Ford, GM, and Chrysler .. Ford is the better of the three!!
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ I prefer GM, my daily driver is a GMC. I think brand is one of many factors to consider. I know the average Toyota is much better then the one I had, I hope I didn't come across with a blanket statement all Toyota's are bad. Maintenance, the owner (How he/she drives, how they use the car etc) and even your environment makes a difference. For example a convertible for me is a 9-month a year car, by it's nature 3 months of the year it's not going to do too well, I don't imagine freezing ice over the top can be good for it. Driving through washboard roads and a truck may well be better then a sedan. If I tow, I never expect a 4 cylinder to do the job. Also if I'm going to say X car is much better, I'll consider things like age/trim. I'll naturally enjoy a Camry XLE more then an older Camry CE. But given the evolution of a car, although a car will gain things in a redesign (For example a better radio), they may lose something in the process (The lights in the foot well disappear). I also know that some people with Tauruses have had nothing but head aches. But if I was "poor" with Brand X and couldn't afford fixing that car, and now was more affluent and maintained a more rigorous maintenance schedule with car 2 (Brand Y). I doubt brand alone has anything to do with the improved reliability. Also I'd take name the worst car of 2006, over the best car of the same type that was new in 1986.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<Corolla or a Civic>> vb: Your daughter doesn't take after you does she? I'd imagine Corolla driver would prefer a Mercedes, they're both a bit to soft. (And yes i've driven E and C class, never a CLK, SLK or S Class though). I'd see a BMW family with a Civic, just a nicer handling, nicer car. That said I live in an area where commuters work at both the Civic and Corolla plants. The Corolla's just to mushy and staid. < hit the nail on the head -- I have always been a performance car guy ( back to my days with muscle cars) - but my oldest daughter does not like 'drivers cars'. She absolutely would prefer MB over BMW....not sure what happened -LOL !
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>>>Minnie, as far as interior room, is your 325 pre body change ? <<<< I don't quite know what this means, but I'll wager that the answer is no. I'm 5'2", 100lbs, and my car fits me perfectly. It's tight for dh and for dd's car seat though. < what I meant by pre body change was BMW 3 series changed it's body style with the 2005/06 model year.
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ The only thing I don't like of BMW's is the orange-red for me, I prefer VW's Blue, followed by MB coloured gauges. I know no vehicle is 100% perfect, the best anyone can do is find the one thats closest fit for you. That said I may end up with a Volvo next time around because it is more affordable. (But I so love my inline-6 in my GMC it pulls like a train, something I'd get to keep with a BMW)
Originally Posted By avromark BMW 3 Series BMW E21 - (1975–1983) 3 Series BMW E30 - (1984–1994) 3 Series BMW E36 - (1992–1998) 3 Series BMW E46 - (1999–2005) 3 Series BMW E90 - (2006–) 3 Series If it's "dying" I think it's probably an E36ish age one?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <The Beemer is undoubtedly a wonderful automobile. The 3281 base model lists at about $8,500 more than the base 300, so you are paying for the luxury. < no, you're paying for the resale value. Look at the lease rate on the 2 and they'd be about the same - why, because the residual value of what the Bimmer is worth in 3 years is a higher % than that of the 300. ( btw- I do not lease - hate it - just using to show the financials) - I sold a 3 year old 325i ( granted very low miles and perfect condition) for 27,000 and I only paid 32,500. Try that with a 300. And nothing against the 300, it is a fine car. <If money were no object which would I buy? The Beemer, of course. It 0-60's in 4.8 seconds while the 300 takes 6.9 seconds! But since money usually IS an object for me, I would probably buy the 300 which I believe is an excellent value. < trippy, you have to also factor in the fact that with the bimmer you have free service and maintenance for 4 years / 50,000 miles. What is that worth $$ wise ? BMW washes your car for you just for stopping by ( free- no tipping allowed) - as I havent paid for a car wash in 8 years ( and always hand wash in summer anyway) - and then factor in the trade in value/resale value when you are ready. It is a total calc not just the out the door price. When I went back to BMW I had been driving SUV's for a good deal of time. I wanted a sports sedan and test drive 11 different cars and really poured my time into it...and when I was done with all my spread sheets ( and emotional input) - I put the BMW 3 at the top and very surprising to me, the Honda Accord V6 at number 2 for value for the money. I drove Lexus ( 2) / Infinity G35 / Mercedes C / Grand Prix GTP / 300M / Honda Accord / BMW 3 & 5 / Caddy CTS / Volvo. Just to show I am not an all foreign car guy- (I grew up a GM guy) -we also have a Jeep Libery Limited ( have to have a 4wd )- and in my garage under cover is my 1969 Camaro Z28 - 302 DZ....( those were the days) The American cars have gotten a lot better, and I think the Chrysler products lead the pack there ( MB infleunce likely doesn't hurt) - they had to. That 2008 Challenger will be one tempting package - the best looking retro ever IMHO
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <^^^ The only thing I don't like of BMW's is the orange-red for me, I prefer VW's Blue, followed by MB coloured gauges.< The orange grew on me,and the cool thing is opposed to some cars- when drivign at night - there are soooo many things lit up -- but I don't care for MB gauges at all -- VW's blue are awesome I agree.
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ coloured not MB gauges. I like that I face 6 gauges in my truck Oh and I bet you're like me now, have to have audio controls on the wheel.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <^^^ 50,000 miles is *nowhere* near 4 years.< average driver per insurance rates is 12K per year. For me 50,000 covers it twice over as I work from home ( no commute) and drive the Jeep for a number of trips, especially in bad weather..... so it will cover for some, not for others...but 50,000 of free service is worth a few bucks -- after like a year when you stop in for an oil change etc - they will change wiper blades etc without asking - and @ 2 years on my last one - they changed belts because I asked them to. Each experience different I am sure, but right now they have me locked up. If I could only win the lotto and get me one of those M5's -- oh yeah !
Originally Posted By avromark Then again even GM covers basics like burnt-out light bulbs, Toyota tried to charge me installation, decided to pop over to Parts Source (Pep Boys) and install my side marker light myself. Free oil changes, Ford gave me 2 years no charge (Dealer perk, not a company wide privledge). Heck Toyota made me pay for roadside assistance, and their warranty is at least 2 years too short (How come most car companies can provide 5 to 10 years and Toyota provides 3?)
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost It seems that some of you have veered off into never, never land here. The original question was for a family car costing about 24K. I don't know why BMW was even mentioned. I am going to go more simply here and say get a mini-van with a 6 cyl. engine. I owned two when my family was growing, the brand was Dodge Caravan but I don't think the brand is important. To be competitive all cars have to be "near" equal or they will quickly fade into the sunset. Both my vans hit 200K in mileage and were still going strong when I switched to another simply because I wanted a newer model. No major repairs were required on either and they never left me stranded anyplace. They were roomy and more importantly they were extremely comfortable and fun to drive. I found that I could travel for miles and miles and not get tired or stiff. They are looked at as a "soccer mom" car or a nerd car but frankly I prefer being a comfortable nerd to anything else.
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ The car being replaced is a BMW. I'm 27 and single and my 2nd car is a minivan. I don't think anyone would mistake me for a mom. Since Minnie is petite, if you do get a van or SUV (or most cars) a power seat helps greatly. It should be a must have feature.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>I'm 27 and single and my 2nd car is a minivan. I don't think anyone would mistake me for a mom.<<< So...it would be nerd then?
Originally Posted By avromark Certified, by more then one "body", then again I'm also certified in other things (No not nut). The van was a free hand me down, from my mom 2 vans ago. I don't like scuffing the interior of my good vehicle with bulky items
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The 3.5 and 3.9 are OHV not OHC, they are pushrods. They're basically an evolution of the 3.5 and 3.8 the 3.6 is the DOHC. the 3.5 is a "High Value" Engine with Continually variable valve timing . If you were to purchase an Accadian for example you'd have their new DOHC engine. Check their literature.<< I stand corrected. The new engines are so smooth that I thought they were OHC. If they are as durable as the 3800, they will last forever.
Originally Posted By Minnie1955 >>If it's "dying" I think it's probably an E36ish age one?<<< It's a 91... but I got it used in 95. >>a power seat helps greatly.<<< I realized this as I test drove the 300 (my car doesn't have this). It's definitely a feature I like.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Both my vans hit 200K in mileage and were still going strong when I switched to another simply because I wanted a newer model. No major repairs were required on either and they never left me stranded anyplace. They were roomy and more importantly they were extremely comfortable and fun to drive. I found that I could travel for miles and miles and not get tired or stiff.>> Mini-vans are good automobiles and the sales figures indicate that they are extremely popular. The best selling mini-vans are manufactured by Chrysler, and I think Chrysler is putting out a very quality product lately. I just could never buy one... sorry. I want a car that in some way makes me tingle a little, and a mini-van never will.
