Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Three hotels were announced well before construction even began on DCA and DtD. As we all well know plans were scaled back resort-wide. That does not change the fact that today the Grand Californian is expanding. The next wave of resort expansion will be hotels and Downtown Disney. It has taken some time and a whole lot of investment but the resort is finally starting to become what it was intended to be. A second gate, even if it's DCA, actually works in Anaheim.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "despite the fact that they announced THREE new hotels" What hotels are you talking about? The ones from WESTCOT days? What new hotel has been discussed since the Grand Californian was announced back in the mid 90's? I admit that it's odd that new hotels have not been planned for DLR. This is especially strange since a) the current properties are running at about 90% occupancy, and b) demand in the area has risen dramatically during this decade. Nevertheless, a & b are proof that overnight stays in the area have increased, which as we all know was the primary objective of converting DL into a destination resort in the first place.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>What hotels are you talking about? The ones from WESTCOT days? What new hotel has been discussed since the Grand Californian was announced back in the mid 90's?<< There were three unidentified "theme hotels" announced with the initial Resort. Based on the renderings, one was to closely resemble the Del Coronado (which was inspiration for the Grand Floridian), one appears to be mission style, and another arts and crafts. By the time DCA was announced, there were two new hotels announced, the Grand Californian and the Magic Kingdom. With the purchase of the old Pacific (now Paradise Pier), Disney apparently scaled back from three new hotels. The Magic Kingdom footprint is identified as the area currently used for valet drop off at Downtown Disney. (It's a BIG area for this activity!) That there were more hotels announced than built is not the point. The point is that since DCA opened, Disney has not added a single new hotel room in the resort. And the recent announcement about finally building out the GC to its full footprint noted that these new rooms were for the DVC.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>It has taken some time and a whole lot of investment but the resort is finally starting to become what it was intended to be.<< Yes. Pity that it is only now, six years later, becoming "what it was intended to be." This is happening not because of the success of the second gate, but rather despite its failure.
Originally Posted By bean Just for some information the three hotels that have been brought up were part of the massive westcot expansion plan. The plans were scaled back for many reasons that involved problems with the city of anaheim and economical problems during that time. They had nothing to do with the 2001 expansion plans. The after the 2001 expansions work did not stop on design and proposals for new hotels. Just because they wre not built sooner does not mean they were not needed. The three Disney hotels as well as surrounding hotels have seen a signifcant increase (just like someone stated) Plans are moving forward to add up to four more hotels within just a short amount of time. the first project is the expansion of GCH. Land is very lmited in the area and careful planning needs to be considered before any new expensive construction gets on its way.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "There were three unidentified "theme hotels" announced with the initial Resort. Based on the renderings, one was to closely resemble the Del Coronado (which was inspiration for the Grand Floridian), one appears to be mission style, and another arts and crafts." bean is right, those are the WESTCOT hotels. They were scrapped by the time DCA was announced.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt “The point is that since DCA opened, Disney has not added a single new hotel room in the resort.†With the exception of the GCH this is not really so strange to me. Especially considering one property was inherited (DLH), and the other purchased (PPH) to control all the real estate within the DLR’s boundaries. I am guessing, but it would not surprise me if Disney were at least using the returns on these properties as sources of income to finance development costs. This seems like a reasonable assumption considering that they have only performed modest upgrades on the two hotels since acquiring them some years ago, and yet they remain at capacity year-round. It has been rumored that the company has been considering its options for the long-term development of these properties but has not made any decisions yet. What’s more surprising to me is that the company has not announced any new hotels. Profit from hotels can be incredibly lucrative and given the occupancy rates at DLR, it is very surprising that Disney has not been more aggressive with new hotel development plans.
Originally Posted By DlandDug I believe all these points were already addressed in post #204. The fact remains that before DCA opened Disney was actively planning, discussing, and announcing new Resort hotels. After DCA opened, there has been no new information forthcoming, other than that they are finally going to build out the GCH to its full footprint, to accommodate the west coast DVC. I hope we will see more theme hotels in Anaheim. I am sure that if DCA had not been such a failure, we would have by now.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip There is little on earth that is more accurate than the Yahoo Travel Reviews, and 31 reviews of DCA resulted in an average rating of 4 out of 5 stars. So I guess we can finally put all of this failure stuff to rest and move on to other things. ;-) <a href="http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-2974439-disney_s_california_adventure_anaheim-i" target="_blank">http://travel.yahoo.com/p-trav elguide-2974439-disney_s_california_adventure_anaheim-i</a>
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "The fact remains that before DCA opened Disney was actively planning, discussing, and announcing new Resort hotels." No, Disney dropped those plans before DCA was announced. After the WESTCOT concept didn't fly Disney revamped its plans and revealed plans for what is now the DLR. At some point before announcing the revisions, Disney must have realized that the return on investment was going to be poor and reduced not only the hotel development, but the size of its investment in the theme park as well. I'm wondering where you are getting this stuff about the hotel plans being scaled back after DCA opened.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<No, Disney dropped those plans before DCA was announced. After the WESTCOT concept didn't fly Disney revamped its plans and revealed plans for what is now the DLR.>> Hans seems to be accurate in his statements. From the Walt Disney 1999 Annual Report: <<Disney’s California Adventure will open in 2001 on a site adjacent to Disneyland. From the natural wonders of California’s national parks to the backlots of Hollywood’s dream factories, this second theme park will celebrate the diverse wonders of the Golden State. An elegant new 750-room hotel, The Grand Californian, will be located within the park. Outside the park, as part of the transformation of the Anaheim Resort District, will be Downtown Disney, a 300,000-square-foot retail, dining and entertainment complex with venues including House of Blues, Rainforest Cafe and ESPN Zone.>> Source: <a href="http://www.cornerstoneir.com/reportgallery/work/disney99/dis99ar15.html" target="_blank">http://www.cornerstoneir.com/r eportgallery/work/disney99/dis99ar15.html</a> The report talks about DCA and the opening of the Grand Californian and Downtown Disney. There is no mention of any other hotels; clearly by 1999 those plans had been dropped.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Interesting to note that all the new hotels built in the city of Anaheim have had the focus of the Convention Center as its clientele, and the 4 new ones at Anaheim Garden Walk are mainly Convention Center related. The AGW timeshare and World Mark (another timeshare) would have more a vacation, and therefore Disneyland related clientele. The new restaurants, Morton's and Ruth Chris, both near the Convention Center and aimed at their clientele. And the restaurants and shops being built at AGH are mainly Convention Center related. The Garden Walk hotels at Harbor and Chapman are a mix of Convention Center and Vacation business.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Let me fix the last two sentences... And the restaurants and shops being built at AGW are mainly Convention Center related. The Garden Grove hotels at Harbor and Chapman are a mix of Convention Center and Vacation business.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <We usually agree about Disney stuff. It's only politics where you're almost always completely wrong.> I disagree.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >>Nor any that it's not due to DCA.<< <If anyone could offer anything approaching evidence that this was the case, then the argument would be moot. The difficulty on my part is proving a negative.> Yes, and on both sides of this, one might have to "prove a negative." <I will reiterate that the fact that the DLR has built NO new hotel rooms in the six years since DCA opened (despite the fact that they announced THREE new hotels) is some proof that DCA has been a failure, as far as attracting the numbers of guests anticipated.> Well, 1). This only works if you define "failure" as "didn't meet expectations." That's not the only valid definition, nor I'd argue, even the best one - back to that pesky differing definitions thing. 2). As has been pointed out, by '99, the plans for additional hotels had been dropped anyway.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <I disagree.> You mean you're almost always wrong about Disney stuff too? Sorry, I couldn't resist. You "teed up a gopher ball".
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>I'm wondering where you are getting this stuff about the hotel plans being scaled back after DCA opened.<< What I have consistently said is that BEFORE DCA opened, there was active discussion and announcements of new hotels (plural). Once DCA opened, there was no more talk of additional hotels.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Once DCA opened, there was no more talk of additional hotels.>> According to Disney's 1999 Annual Report that I linked to above, they stopped talking about it at least two years BEFORE the park opened. I hugely respect your DL info and think you are a nice guy. But I think you are wrong on this one.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Dldug, you are making it sound as if Disney was talking about additional hotels up until the day DCA opened.
