Originally Posted By WorldDisney Wow, I can't believe this, all these years and some people are STILL in denial about this park? << "We're still working to assure the second gate is successful",>> Well, that just sounds like nice, well positioned PR Disney speak to me . It's the kind of thing Cynthia Harris would say, "We are all very satisfied and upbeat with the response of the park." and alllll the other dribble you use to hear from her when she talked about DCA. She came across as a robot in most of her interviews. I was waiting for her to get back to her part time job as one of the AA's in POTC . Is a WHOLE LOT different than: <<Look, we ALL know DCA is in big trouble>> Read what I just posted. Again, guys, I don't understand why is this even an issue. IF it wasn't in big trouble, then none of this would be discussed--none. TDLFAN talks about WDW like the place is situated in Baghdad now, especailly MK. But what's being done? What major revamping do they have planned for that park? Nothing, why, because the attendance is sky rocketing and people are showing up. If DCA is doing well, we would be discussing the maybe the next attraction and that would be the end of it. The park IS in big trouble in the long term it seems. All the stuff they got in place for it now is fine, but it can't run like that forever. Businesses has always had one great product cover the bases for the less achieving ones all the time, nothing new, but usually if they don't start to stand on their own in time, the get phased out or handed over somewhere else. I don't see ANY of these things happening to DCA, but I don't see the park running like this forever either. SOMETHING must be done, period. Are they still doing 2fers? Yeah, thought so .
Originally Posted By Park Hopper I don’t think anyone can deny that DCA has a bad reputation (deserved or not). Right now, that is the park’s worst enemy. Many people have already written the place off. They won’t set foot in the park unless admission is included with their Disneyland ticket. How is Disney going to overcome that? How are they going to get the people who have already dismissed DCA to give the park a second chance? They have been making small improvements to the place steadily since it opened. It hasn’t helped much. If they continue in this vain, the may make the park a spectacular place within a decade but it will take another decade before anyone notices. What they need is a big splash. They need to rebrand the park and relaunch it in a big way. They need to send out the message that this is not the park it was in 2001. This is something new and exciting. That way they will get instant results on their investment and they won’t have to wait years for word of mouth to trickle out.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Yes, DCA is doing 'fine' now, but because it's life support is coming from Disneyland basically and I think they want to severe those ties a little more or at least don't think it's financially feasible for DCA to keep going the way it's going for another decade.>> This is where I think California folk are way off. WDW has been very successful with the Magic Kingdom providing life support for MGM Studios and the Animal Kingdom. Epcot could perhaps stand on its own, but the other two could not. So what? You set your pricing structure up to accommodate that and you are good to go. “Westcot†could perhaps have stood on its own. Anyone within or outside of Disney who thought a park the size and scope of DCA could stand on it’s own was out of their mind. I don’t care how well the park is rehabbed; no way will it ever stand on its own.
Originally Posted By DlandDug While this whole topic is endlessly fascinating (well, MY eyes glazed, anyway), I do want to chime in here and point out that the source of all this speculation has NO credible basis in reality. The blogger involved may dress up his stories as "press releases," but the fact is it's no more than the same kind of speculation that any of us might engage in. There's even a disclaimer in the article itself. EXCERPT: >>Alas, the great majority of these juicy morsels—oh, heck—ALL of the information that follows is pure gossip and speculation, supplied to yours truly by a variety of the usual suspects willing to chatter about the Mouse only on “deep background†(i.e. without attribution of any kind)... With the exception of the quoted material from NewsLeader.com of Springfield Missouri, NONE of the following assertions regarding possible future activities of the Walt Disney Company, or any of the other parities mentioned or involved herein, could be independently corroborated...<< By all means enjoy the conversation, but don't for a minute think that it is based on anything other than on line speculation.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt “Many people have already written the place off.†Yep, and the same two sides keep coming together in these forums saying the exact same things repeatedly. It’s 2007. DCA is what it is, and there is no magic bullet that is going cause the park’s performance to be equal to Disneyland’s. Never mind that it was never supposed to be in the first place. “This is where I think California folk are way off. WDW has been very successful with the Magic Kingdom providing life support for MGM Studios and the Animal Kingdom.†I could not agree more. At the very least, DCA has driven increases at Disney’s hotels, which are running at near capacity year-round. The critics keep wheeling out the 2fer argument failing to acknowledge that the promotion also increases attendance at DL and drives business at DTD during an otherwise slow period of the year. DCA may not be drawing record crowds but it’s undeniable that DLR seems to be doing very well, thanks in part, to DCA.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "At the very least, DCA has driven increases at Disney’s hotels, which are running at near capacity year-round." But how were Disney's hotels doing before DCA was added? I'd wager that Disney could have built only the Grand Californian and Downtown Disney and still filled all three hotels. People seem to really like staying at Disney hotels. Maybe DCA pulls in an extra day for people, but I'm not convinced that the profits brought in for those extra days is enough to offset the cost of running a whole theme park???
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster DCA is doing okay but it could be doing better. In order to position the resort for its next growth phase it is vital to have the existing assets performing as well as possible to help soften whatever problems further development might bring. It's not that DCA is a failing park. It just needs to be among the elite which it, in its present state, is not. The last dozen or so times I've been to DCA there have been long lines, busy restaurants, and crowded shops. I have not seen first hand any sign of the park looking like a failure recently.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Obviously the time for action is now. DCA shoulf be re-imagineered all at once. Like Kar2oonMan said Disneyland has changed and added new lands over its 52 years and attendance has not slipped.>> The company would have to close DCA in order to re-Imagineer it all at once. While some folks wouldn't mind, I think such drastic action is inappropriate and foolish. DL may have changed over the years, but never more than one land at a time.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I don't think that DCA could keep doing what it's doing forever and if it DOESN'T change, it is in trouble for the long term.>> That's why it is not in big trouble, because it will undoubtedly change. No Disney park has remained the same; DCA won't remain the same either.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I don't think that DCA could keep doing what it's doing forever and if it DOESN'T change, it is in trouble for the long term.>> <<That's why it is not in big trouble, because it will undoubtedly change. No Disney park has remained the same; DCA won't remain the same either.>> But see, I see that very differently. Yeah, Disney parks has always changed and retooled certain area's but, I don't think any park has been completely rehauled before IF any of it is true from what we been hearing the last few years like DCA is suppose to be and certainly not after a park that is still relatively quite new. Again, to *me*, it sounds like they are trying to completely change the image of the park--that's not a small feat and I don't know how much of it is working now. The only other park I can think of them doing that with is Epcot because after decades of being too nerdy and boring for a lot of folks it seems, they wanted to energize it up a bit, but still Epcot has always had a good size fanbase and attendance regardless. But DCA, doubtful. My main point is unless you got an AP or multi hopper, no one hardly notices DCA existence and frankly with ALL the changes the park has made (and FOR the better lately IMO), no one has noticed all that much. Nothing added or changed so far has changed the image of that park. Yeah, more people are going, but I think because more people are simply going to DL with all the 50th hype and once again, DCA is merely picking up the crumbs. Again, FINE if that's the point. FINE, if DCA can sustain itself on AP's and multi passes while people decide to spend 3-4 hours in the place and then hurry back to DL for a *real* Disney experience. But, I don't just don't see how Disney could be all that happy with that, especially the first year, they thought they would litterally be selling around 7 million one day passes back in 2001 (since there WERE no AP's to be had and multi passes were strictly for hotel guests) and probably EXPECTED people to be there all day buying food and merchandise. But 6 year later, it seems to be getting nothing but discounted passes and gets basically empty by 8 pm. Again, that's NOT good, even with the extra bump in attendance. Yes, I know it's not 2001, things change, got the memo, but once again, these idea's people keep bringing out is because I think Disney STILL wants that plan. Sure, they probably settled that the resort will do or die by APer's but Disney still probably sells thousands of 1 day tickets a month easily. I think they would like to see that happen more, much more with DCA, right? I agree, the changes will certainly help, but like EVERYTHING with DCA, it depends what they actually have planned for the park and two, how well they get the word out there if they want to get off the 2-3 hour Ap guest kick.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<This is where I think California folk are way off. WDW has been very successful with the Magic Kingdom providing life support for MGM Studios and the Animal Kingdom. Epcot could perhaps stand on its own, but the other two could not. So what? You set your pricing structure up to accommodate that and you are good to go.>> Hi Roadtrip ! Loooong time! How's the wife and kids doing? Made it out to WDW recently? Maybe one day we got to compare notes on the latest Presidential hopefuls. Hope things are going well for you! Okay, now time to get into it: You sir, are a complete and utter MORON!!!!!!! (ooooh, that felt good ;D) Seriously, yeah, I agree with that of course and AGAIN, if that was something they wanted to do, then fine, but you're talking a park that was always TALKED about as a WDW model, but litterally from day one, it was NEVER treated as such. Disney naturally knew that DCA wasn't a full day park and wanted to compliment DL, no arguments there. But again, DCA seem to *me* was expected to bring in a whooole new audience and fan base as WELL keeping the fans happy and HENCE why there was no AP or multi-passes unlike MGM and AK that instantly became part of the cycle. Disney built this park thinking they could draw in the 'Anti-Disney' crowd (read: not us ) while still enticing the locals and Disney fans to still accept it on its own terms...instead it got shafted from everyone for the most part and NOW it's doing the 2 park, multi pass model, not out of some original grand plan, simply out of survival , nothing more. They thought they could grab all the KBF/MM goers who would 'happily' pay the full price for a mad mouse coaster while relying on the hotel guests to fill up the rest of it--leaving the locals out for the most part. Yes, I know, its not 2001 anymore and in all honestly dude, I think I typed these very exact words somewhere back in 2003 on some remote island in Malaysia somewhere....drunk, so yeah, I know its all been said lol and why I'm rarely here anymore. I'm just making the point DCA was NOT set up like WDW in the beginning because Disney actually thought they struck some kind of gold with making a cheaper park and charge the exact same price as DL KNOWING their base are 60% locals anyway and not all the vacationers and tourists WDW gets and could get away with it since the guests are recycled much more than they are in Cali. Again, MAYBE if they were smart enough from the beginning, they would've done the WDW model right away and irritated all us Cali locals less.....lesson learned now lol. <<“Westcot†could perhaps have stood on its own. Anyone within or outside of Disney who thought a park the size and scope of DCA could stand on it’s own was out of their mind. I don’t care how well the park is rehabbed; no way will it ever stand on its own.>> Man, where were you when the idiotic executives were pitching meetings for this park? I wish you could've told THEM that (and made clear that Westcot might've been a better option and certainly a better shot. Yeah, that park was expensive, but ALL the money they are pumping into DCA and STILL no huge results yet, Westcot might be considered a steal at the rate they are going ). You had a lot of arrogant executives back then who thought just because you tack "Disney" onto a park and open it next to DL, the herds would just rush in all year long fighting over the last CALIFONIA ADVENTURE sweatshirt for the day and spend $50 on dinner at Wolfgang's overlooking a carnival. Thank god they are all fired now . I know, I'm a little off my game now but man I miss these boards. *sniff*
Originally Posted By disneysnout Cant they take some elements from Westcot and take care of the issue. Great comments World of Disney....only a few years away from DCA'S 10Th, all we can do is cross our fingers....
Originally Posted By Park Hopper >>At the very least, DCA has driven increases at Disney’s hotels, which are running at near capacity year-round. The critics keep wheeling out the 2fer argument failing to acknowledge that the promotion also increases attendance at DL and drives business at DTD during an otherwise slow period of the year. DCA may not be drawing record crowds but it’s undeniable that DLR seems to be doing very well, thanks in part, to DCA.<< That's right, Hans! You tell them. Now quick write Disney and stop them before they spend all that money on rebranding when it is so unnecessary. I don't know what that Iger guy was talking about. Challenge? What challenge?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "But how were Disney's hotels doing before DCA was added? I'd wager that Disney could have built only the Grand Californian and Downtown Disney and still filled all three hotels." As someone who visits DLR from out of the area I can tell you for certain that I would not be visiting the property as often, nor would I bother staying on site, if it were not for DTD and DCA. The area wasn't attractive and there just wasn't enough to do before the expansion to warrent frequent visits with overnight stays. There is no question that more people are visiting the property now than ever before.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Now quick write Disney and stop them before they spend all that money on rebranding when it is so unnecessary. I don't know what that Iger guy was talking about. Challenge? What challenge?" Thank you for completely twisting my point around. Not sure what you are trying to achieve with these sarcastic remarks.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <As someone who visits DLR from out of the area I can tell you for certain that I would not be visiting the property as often, nor would I bother staying on site, if it were not for DTD and DCA. The area wasn't attractive and there just wasn't enough to do before the expansion to warrent frequent visits with overnight stays. There is no question that more people are visiting the property now than ever before.> That's exactly right. People miss that DCA was never really meant as a stand-alone park. Nor, on the other hand, was Disney trying for another WDW - they know very well they don't have the space for that. But they were trying for something in between WDW and what they had - trying to change the paradigm in Anaheim as a whole. And in that, they are succeeding, at least to a degree. We never used to bother staying on site, or staying for more than a day or two. Now we do. DTD and another hotel would never have changed the paradigm on their own. They needed a second park for that. And though that second park is far from perfect (especially if viewed in the isolation it was never meant to be viewed in), it is succeeding in changing the paradigm in Anaheim, and can only continue doing so as it grows and improves.
Originally Posted By Park Hopper >>Thank you for completely twisting my point around. Not sure what you are trying to achieve with these sarcastic remarks.<< I was trying to ridicule you for attempting to paint life as rosy at the DLR when even the Disney Company has admitted it isn’t. If I was mistaken as to your intentions and somehow twisted your point, please restate it in a fashion that even a dimwit like myself can understand.
Originally Posted By Park Hopper >>But they were trying for something in between WDW and what they had - trying to change the paradigm in Anaheim as a whole.<< Please, Dabob, what exactly were they trying for? The above descritpion is too vague.
Originally Posted By DlandDug I do not agree that the improvements made to DCA over the last six years are analagous to the changes made in other Disney theme parks. With the exception (I think) of Animal Kingdom, every domestic Disney theme Park has been forced to add attractions and lands due to immediate demand. DCA, on the other hand, has been tweaked and prodded from its first season, simply oin the basis that the crowds have stayed away. And it is not to be blamed on 9/11. Remember that DCA had a complete and disastrous first summer season without any terrorist attacks on US soil. If anything, the tragedy in New York gives DCA apologists a bit of wiggle room. (In point of fact ALL domestic theme parks suffered a decline following 9/11-- DCA was just already performing that poorly.) Take the granddaddy of them all-- Disneyland. Starting almost immediately there were additions. 1956: Skyway, Tom Sawyer Island, Storybook Land. 1958: Alice, Columbia. 1959: Matterhorn, Monorail, Submarines. These were additions designed not to entice reluctant crowds. These were installed to handle the huge demands placed on a popular park. DCA? The most striking change is in the number of venues that were quickly shuttered due to lack of demand. Soon gone forever were food outlets like Soap Opera Bistro, Hollywood and Dine, Wine Country Bistro, MalibuRita's, and Lucky Fortune Cookery, as well as live entertainment like Lights! Camera! Chaos!, La Feet, Wizard Acrobats, and even stores, which turned from high end merchandise (Gone Hollywood had original autographs and high end clothing) to generic souvenirs available across the esplanade. What was done to DCA was not to satisfy the demands of a clamoring public. It was to convince people that DCA was a bona fide Disney theme park. So we got a beloved hit from the past (Disney's Electrical Parade), hasty clones (Playhouse Disney Live) and generic restaurants in place of high end experiences (Avalon Cove to Ariel's Grotto). That DCA was a failure by any standard is a given. Much more time and energy have been expended fixing it than anyone in their wildest assumptions ever imagined.
