Originally Posted By Darkbeer Then we had Roy Disney making a statement about DCA in a SEC filing from February 2004. >>The filing then took issue with the company's skimping too much in building California Adventure and Disney Studios Paris in recent years. It said the company should have invested more in California Adventure, which opened in 2001, and charged that executives were too skittish over the Euro Disney debacle. "The continued suppression of innovation - fixing the off-the-shelf rides -- is likely as the schemers desperately try to avoid any financial write-offs at this time," the filing says. "[California Adventure] has failed and will never come close to generating the financial return the planners forecast."<<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Then we had this statement from Michael Eisner himself in 2004... >>Eisner's strategy of late has been to expand the brand without spending much. He tried to transform its properties —in Anaheim and Paris into "destination resorts" by adding second theme parks. The $1 billion Disney's California Adventure, largely made up of rides copied from its Florida parks or purchased off the shelf, left tourists yawning. Attendance was weak and sponsors like Wolfgang Puck fled. "What people have to keep remembering is we are going for magic,'' Eisner told NEWSWEEK last year. "We are not going for perfection."<<
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Thanks Darkbeer... Your posts are a terrific reminder that nothing new has been said on this topic since 2001.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Some early attendance as reported by Al Lutz over at MousePlanet.... Opening Day Attendance for DCA (Thursday, February 8th, 2001)... DCA: 8:00 am - 12:00 pm Estimated Attendance - 38,000 Actual Attendance - 14,000 But here is the amazing thing, Disneyland got more folks that day, even with shorter hours! Disneyland: 10:00 am - 8:00 pm Estimated Attendance - 17,000 Actual Attendance - 17,000 And the rest of the opening weekend got worse.... Friday, February 9th DCA: 8:00 am - 12:00 pm Estimated Attendance - 38,000 Actual Attendance - 11,000 Disneyland: 10:00 am - 10:00 pm Estimated Attendance - 27,000 Actual Attendance - 18,000 Saturday, February 10th DCA: 8:00 am - 12:00 pm Estimated Attendance - 38,000 Actual Attendance - 10,000 Disneyland : 9:00 am - 12:00 pm Estimated Attendance - 38,000 Actual Attendance - 27,000 And of course, two weeks later was a three-day holiday weekend (President's Day) Friday, Feb. 16th: Disneyland operating hours 9 am - 10 pm estimate - 33K actual - 36K DCA operating hours 8 am - 12 midnight estimate - 35K actual - 17K Saturday, Feb. 17th: Disneyland operating hours 8 am - 12 midnight estimate - 43K actual - 43K DCA operating hours 8 am - 12 midnight estimate - 35K actual - 19K Sunday, Feb 18th: Disneyland operating hours 8 am - 12 midnight estimate - 45K actual - 43K DCA operating hours 8 am - 12 midnight estimate - 35K actual - 17K And here is one more day... Friday, February 23 DCA 8 am - 12 am Planned: 31,000 Revised: 15,000 Actual Park Attendance : 11,000 Disneyland 10 am - 10 pm Planned: 29,000 Revised: 29,000 (no revision ahead of time) Actual Park Attendance: 33,000
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Here is what Roy Disney and Stanley Gold said in a SEC filing from February, 2004. >>DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE AND DISNEY STUDIOS PARIS With a strategy put together by the schemers to transform single-park sites into multi-day destination resorts (and a price tag of well over $1 Billion) Disney's California Adventure was destined to failure before ground was broken. Frightened by the economics of EuroDisney and misinterpreting the reasons for its failure, the "numbers guys" assigned an investment cap to DCA's construction. Rather than innovating and designing the Park from the bottom-up based upon what the consumer would expect for the price of admission, DCA was designed from the top-down based on what the spreadsheets said was required to hit a return figure that has never materialized. The continued suppression of innovation - fixing the off the shelf rides - is likely as the schemers desperately try to avoid any financial write-offs at this time. DCA has failed and will never come close to generating the financial return the planners forecast. Why? Consumers are not willing to pay the same admission price for a smaller and subjectively less-special park. The excessive discounting in the last twelve months clearly supports that the consumer knows what DCA is worth. If only the schemers had listened in the first place. By contrast, Oriental Land Company financed and opened the innovative and luxurious Tokyo DisneySea during the same period. Its' marvelsquickly became a major draw even in a flat Japanese economy. Anaheim should have been so lucky. The insistence on avoiding reality in Anaheim led to Disney Studios Paris - another "second gate" failure akin to DCA. Conceived on an even smaller creative scale and, it too, heavily relied on recycled product. In both instances, planners mistakenly assumed that Disney name alone would move the product regardless of the quality of its content. We fear Hong Kong Disneyland will be similarly doomed to mediocrity. Although the schemers negotiated a very favorable deal from the local government, there will not be many rides at the new Park on opening day, and those that do open will be recycled attractions from Anaheim and Orlando. The "half-park" scheme remains in effect despite two enormous failures.<<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer A nice long article from February 2001..... <a href="http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2001_1st/Feb01_IndomitableDisney.html" target="_blank">http://www.hotel-online.com/Ne ws/PR2001_1st/Feb01_IndomitableDisney.html</a> >>Even so, California Adventure opened last week without a hitch. Analysts and industry observers predict the park will be a hit, and a coup for Disney in its bid to get visitors to spend more time and money in Anaheim. But amid the new park’s gala celebration are the outgrowths of Disney’s success. Some visitors are grumbling about parking for the two parks, long lines for premier rides and ticket prices. On top of that, about 500 preview visitors were evacuated from a California Adventure ride on Feb. 3 after smoke from an amplifier filled the attraction’s basement. None of this is likely to hamper Disney, observers say, but they note that the first three months of a park’s opening—and visitors’ initial impressions—are pivotal.<< >>“Is this the best time to open a park?†Kyser said. “Maybe not the best, but its newness will be an attraction. Downtown Disney is an added attraction-and the Grand Californian is one of the best hotels I’ve seen.†A more immediate concern for Disney is how visitors will perceive the new park — a critical factor in first-year performance. The park is expected to draw about 7 million visitors in its first year, according to Disney executives. “The first 90 days are critical,†said Thor Degelman, a local theme park consultant and former Disney executive who worked on the opening of other Disney parks. Disney maintains it has learned from past theme park mistakes, down to even small things like the new park’s more circular parade route compared to Disneyland’s Main Street format that employees call a “logistical nightmare.†<< >>Degelman said the most critical aspects are word-of-mouth and in-park spending-both of which could turn out to be dicey issues, given pre-opening criticism of the new park’s smaller size and limited number of rides and exhibits. Disney Chief Executive Michael Eisner recently said he wasn’t worried about attendance, but was more concerned about making sure the visitor experience is great-an experience that could easily sour if guests find the park too crowded or too mundane. There is widespread speculation that the new park, with about half the capacity of Disneyland at around 30,000 visitors, will be overcrowded from day one. Employees can’t use their passes at the new park until after Labor Day, a practice also employed during the opening months at Animal Kingdom in Orlando, Fla. And the company’s decision earlier this month to suspend the sale of annual passes signals some worry about crowds. “The concern is about letting everyone have a chance (to go to the park),†said Disney spokesman Ray Gomez. Pressler said last week the new park will close or close early-as is done in Florida-if there is concern about overcrowding. “We expect there to be pent-up demand in the first year,†he said. Long lines are a certainty for the most popular rides, even with Disney’s Fastpass placeholder system. << >>Eisner said he isn’t worried about the park. “There are a few movies I’m worried about,†he said at a press conference last week, “but not California Adventure.†<< >>Of course, there are critics. Another ex-employee, who declined to be named, called the park “cardboard†and “cheesy.†“It used to be all about quality and the guest experience,†she said. “But not any more.â€<<
Originally Posted By WorldDisney LOL Darbeer, you bought the thunder . It amazes with allll of that, while yes, old information is saying over and over and OVER again by people IN the company stating what a 'gugantuan sucess' DCA was expecting to be (yeah, I think I spelled gugantuan wrong, but who still says that lol) and ALLL hype and then post DCA, no-one-came, then people are throwing out disclaimers, back tracking, admitting disappointment and failures article after article but yet people still here go, "huh, what, DCA doing bad, there's no REAL proof!" LOL, I'm starting to think some of you work for the Bush administration ;D. But, I respect you guys, so I'm HOPING that's not true .
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Here is another old article from 2001 I came across... <a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=" target="_blank">http://www.marketwatch.com/New s/Story/Story.aspx?guid=</a>%7B0932C808%2D01C5%2D4803%2DA7CD%2D487A149A6F07%7D&source=blq%2Fyhoo&dist=yhoo&siteid=yhoo >>Puck pulls out of troubled theme park Mondavi also exits; turns over winery to Disney officials By Russ Britt, CBS.MarketWatch.com Last Update: 3:56 PM ET Oct. 1, 2001 ANAHEIM, Calif. (CBS.MW) - Wolfgang Puck Food Co. has closed its restaurant at Disney's California Adventure and the Robert Mondavi winery nearby has been turned over to park owner Walt Disney Co., it was revealed Monday. Puck's restaurant, known as Avalon Cove, was suffering from slow business, as was the rest of the Disney park, which opened Feb. 8. Puck officials said they came to a "mutual" agreement with Disney on closing the facility. "I think it's really a Disney thing more than it is us," said Jannis Swerman, spokeswoman for Puck. "It was a mutual decision between both operations." The Puck restaurant's last day of business was Sunday. Disney officials could not be reached for comment. Napa, Calif.-based Mondavi has stopped operating the Golden Vine Winery, a centerpiece of the park, and turned over the operations to Disney. Officials at Mondavi's corporate offices would not comment on the exit. But it was confirmed by employees at the California Adventure facility, who did not speak for attribution. "We have been in discussions with Disney to redefine our relationship," said Nancy Light, Mondavi spokeswoman. "We're really not ready to make a comment on this." Disney has had trouble generating interest in California Adventure, a $1.4 billion park adjacent to its flagship Disneyland park in Anaheim. The company is trying to make the facility a resort like Walt Disney World by having attractions that will encourage visitors to stay for several days at a time. California Adventure has not generated the business the company had hoped for, forcing Disney to beef up the facility through such attractions as a nighttime "electrical" parade featuring floats bathed in lights, and creating a simulated "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" attraction. Disney does not offer attendance figures. Al Lutz, president of Disneyland watchdog site Mouseplanet.com, said the facility has trouble reaching a third of its capacity even on weekends. There was no word yet on what Disney planned to do with the facilities. But Lutz says Disney is considering a number of new attractions in the hopes of generating more interest in the park. <<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer From an LA Times article dated October 2nd, 2001 >>Reflecting continued troubles at Walt Disney Co.'s California Adventure, two premier businesses operating in the park -- Wolfgang Puck and Robert Mondavi -- have sharply reduced their investments. Disney spokesman Ray Gomez confirmed that Wolfgang Puck Food Co.'s upscale seafood restaurant, Avalon Cove, was closing yesterday because it did not meet the expectations of either Disney or Puck. Also as of yesterday, Robert Mondavi Corp. said it no longer was operating the park's Golden Vine Winery attraction and high-end restaurant, instead limiting its role to that of a sponsor. "We want to eliminate further financial exposure," said Nancy Light, a spokeswoman at Mondavi. The Oakville winery said it will record a charge of $12 million to $13 million related to its investment in the Anaheim theme park. Mondavi and Puck represented Disney's bid to attract affluent tourists to the Disneyland Resort. California Adventure opened in February next to Disneyland, but the new park has struggled with sluggish attendance from the start. And the Sept. 11 terrorist attack has made matters worse, thinning attendance even more at the $1.4 billion park and retail district known as Downtown Disney. Gomez said he was unaware of any other tenants in California Adventure seeking to withdraw or revise their contractual agreements with Disney. Other outside businesses operating attractions and selling food in the park include the sourdough bread factory Andre-Boudin Bakeries. The bakery said yesterday it was doing fine in the park. California Adventure was expected to attract about 7 million visitors annually, or 19,000 a day. But in the week before the terrorist attack, the park had been drawing an average of about 4,500 per day, according to a Disney official who asked not to be identified. <<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer I know some folks like to say that Disneyland wasn't a success when it opened in 1955, when DCA opening year is mentioned, but that is entirely UNTRUE..... The Grand Opening, MONDAY, July 18th, 1955, they had over 50,000 paying customers... After that, Walt and his staff decided to limit admission to about 20,000 persons a day to address some of the operational problems.... Heck, they were turning away guests those first few months, so if anything was keeping guests away, it was the crowds, NOT the lack of them! And after SEVEN weeks (September 8th, 1955), Disneyland had over 1 million guests!!!! What did DCA have after 7 weeks, maybe 250,000, if that many.... And of course, it was a LOT harder to have folks to travel to Anaheim in 1955, and the population was a lot lower in the SoCal area back in the mid-50's..... The period from July 18th thru September 8th was 45 days, which makes Disneyland average over 22,000 folks a day to make the 1 millionth guest on September 8th. <a href="http://www.usc.edu/isd/archives/la/disneyland/" target="_blank">http://www.usc.edu/isd/archive s/la/disneyland/</a> (FYI, this link has a lot of great photos) >>The park was turning a profit by its second year of operation...<< But DCA had AWFUL crowds, and while there was some rain in the Spring of 2001, and that was a favorite excuse early on, even with the Heat Wave in 1955, Disneyland "sold out" most days that first summer...... Opening day had 14,000 attend DCA (38,000 was the expected count, aka sellout) DCA's first summer had good weather, but even with a Two tickets for $33 (one Adult, one Child) special for the summer of 2001, it was really dead. There was a BIG difference between Disneyland's first year, and DCA's.....
Originally Posted By Darkbeer some old SaveDisney.com stuff... >>In 1999, Paul Pressler became the President of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, and shortly afterwards would be named Chairman. He was given a more powerful role than any other Parks & Resorts chief in history. He wasn't only supervising Park Operations, he was put in charge of Imagineering as well. Paul Pressler was already well known to WDI by 1999. As President of Disneyland, he had been intimately involved with the design and development of Disney's California Adventure. Pressler helped shape the concept and determined the budget for the park. It was reported that the overall expansion of the Disneyland Resort was well over one billion dollars. Most of that money did not go into California Adventure; in fact, the park received less then half of the investment. Most of the money went into the new parking structure, Downtown Disney, and especially the Grand Californian Hotel. The park designers would have to work with crumbs. But Paul Pressler wasn't just the guy holding the purse strings anymore, as Chairman of Parks & Resorts he had creative approval as well. For the first time in Disney history, a moneyman was dictating "creative" changes to the artists at Walt Disney Imagineering. Paul Pressler had convinced everyone on the Parks & Resorts team that Disney's California Adventure would be an unparalleled success. In the days leading up to the opening of California Adventure, the Director of Attractions at Disneyland, Paul Yeargin, openly discussed his concerns that Disney's California Adventure would fill to capacity every day. He thought the resort's biggest problem would be disappointed guests, who, after traveling a great distance to see California Adventure would have to settle for Disneyland instead. Yeargin and other Disneyland executives made decisions based on this premise. Including a now infamous decision by Disneyland Resort President, Cynthia Harriss, to restrict Annual Passholders from using their passes at Disney's California Adventure for the first few months after opening. This decision only served to anger the already disgruntled 400,000 passholders who provide a significant amount of revenue for the resort. Harriss and Yeargin, like many of the Disneyland executives, had followed Pressler over from the Disney Stores and had no previous theme park experience. Then in February 2001, the world saw what had been festering behind closed doors at WDI for the past several years. Disney's California Adventure opening in the old Disneyland parking lot. It was a mix of off-the-shelf carnival rides and film-based attractions. When Walt's close friend and long-time Imagineer, John Hench, saw the park for the first time he said, "I liked it better as a parking lot." WDI would try to fix California Adventure any way they could. They threw attractions at it left and right...Who Wants to be A Millionaire, a bug's land, The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror, even the Main Street Electrical Parade would come out of moth balls. None of it worked, of course. All these projects were subject to the same approval process as Disney's California Adventure. Park Operations (Paul Pressler) would need to approve the concept and budget for the new attraction. The Strategic Planning department would then determine if the project were economically feasible. Then if the project were approved, it would be supervised by Project Management to make sure the creatives didn't try to improve the attraction after it was in production. Of course, all these new systems of control came with a price tag, which drove up the cost of the projects. The Walt Disney Company was spending more money on bureaucracy and less on the attraction itself. In the end, the paying guest got shortchanged. At WDI, it was taboo to suggest that there was something wrong with California Adventure or the any of the new attractions. At first, WDI management said that the weather was to blame. When the weather cleared up, they blamed the economy. Then they used the new standby...people were scared to travel after September 11th. None of these excuses were valid because Disneyland continued to have much more respectable attendance figures (it's hard to image the weather or economic conditions could be so drastically different ninety feet to the south). It would seem that WDI could sink no further, but in March of 2002, Pressler (along with former strategic planner Jay Rasulo) opened the only Disney theme park less impressive then California Adventure...Walt Disney Studios Paris. The park failed so miserably, it forced Disneyland Paris into a debt re-structuring plan that currently threatens the future existence of the resort. The pendulum had swung to the other extreme. Walt Disney Studios Paris is the total opposite of Disneyland Paris. It is a theme park by the numbers-designed with a spreadsheet instead of paint and brush.<<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer And then a post by Westsider here at LP in December of 2006 in response to Post #111 >>Hey! I went to a "Cast Member Forum" hosted by Paul Yeargin in late 2000 where we talked about DCA and the "future of the Resort"! It was held in the big, fancy conference room on the 4th floor of TDA. There was about 40 of us in the room, mostly CM's who had worked there at least a few years. They showed us video and pictures of DCA on the wall-sized video screen, and then Paul Yeargin opened it up to an informal information session and a Q&A. We talked all about DCA, and Yeargin repeatedly told us that as Attractions Hosts/Hostesses working in Disneyland that our role would be just as vital in 2001 as the Hosts/Hostesses working in DCA. Why, you ask? Because DCA was going to be so popular that it would fill up to capacity, estimated by Yeargin at the time to be about 30,000 people per day, and they would have to close the turnstiles of DCA regularly. Yeargin elaborated that the TDA executive team estimated the turnstile closures would happen for the first 7 to 10 days after DCA opened in February, 2001. And then by mid February the closures would only be happening on weekends for the first 6 or 8 weeks. But by the Easter Vacation period of April, 2001 the turnstile closures would happen again 7 days a week during that traditionally busy time. Then we'd see weekend closures again in May, but by late June we would be back to daily turnstile closures for DCA as its first summer would certainly be extremely busy. Paul Yeargin assured us that our management was preparing for this Guest Service nightmare, and that all of us working in Disneyland would have easy access to "Service Recovery Tools" like coupons for churros or backdoor passes for rides. We would have these at our disposal, and our managers would have access to more expensive options, because there would be so many people inside Disneyland who were upset that DCA had closed their turnstiles before they could get in and they had to "settle for Disneyland". Paul Yeargin wanted to assure us that those of us CM's "who chose to stay behind" at Disneyland wouldn't be forgotten and that our role during DCA's extremely busy first year of operation would be very important since there would be many disapointed guests at Disneyland who couldn't get in to DCA. It was a big pep rally with the message "Don't worry, we won't forget about the struggles you'll be facing in Disneyland in 2001". And at the time, we all totally bought it. Our Cast Member sign-in priveleges were blocked out for DCA for 2001. The Christmas Comp Tickets we got from Michael Eisner in 2000 weren't valid for DCA. Current Annual Passholders had been blocked out from DCA, and it was impossible to even buy a DCA Annual Pass at any price in 2000. DCA was going to be super popular and extremely busy for at least the first few years. Paul Yeargin even shared that there was a plan to add a new spinner ride inside the east end of California Screamin' for 2004, but until then the 2001 roster of attractions, rides, shows, restaurants and entertainment would see the park through its first three years of operation. The funniest thing I remember about that Cast Member Forum was one other CM, a 50 year old lady who had worked at Disneyland since the mid 1970's, and she flatly told Paul Yeargin "That park doesn't look very good. I don't think you guys will need to worry about crowds!". Yeargin laughed at her, and tried to get the rest of us to rally with him and shut her up. Paul Yeargin had a very snotty side to him, and as soon as this highly tenured CM took him off script with her catty remark, he let his snottiness show very quickly. I remember that part the most because it was interesting to see Yeargin's demeanor and tone change so quickly from Cynthia Harriss Rah-Rah-Rah to something more like a snotty Gap Girl after a customer told her she looked fat in the jeans she was wearing. But this story brought back that long ago "Cast Member Forum" that I had pushed to the back of my mind for many years. Thanks Darkbeer for the blast from the past and the trip down memory lane! And it's funny how things actually worked out, isn't it?<<
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Okay, who put Darkbeer on prozac ;D. I think you proved your point buddy. I really wish LP had 'sticky's' to keep certain topics on top. Since it looks like this topic is NEVER going away as long as DCA continues to draw these arguments, maybe stuff like this should just stay on top.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Another old SaveDisney.com post >>Paul Pressler had convinced everyone on the Parks & Resorts team that Disney's California Adventure would be an unparalleled success. In the days leading up to the opening of California Adventure, the Director of Attractions at Disneyland, Paul Yeargin, openly discussed his concerns that Disney's California Adventure would fill to capacity every day. He thought the resort's biggest problem would be disappointed guests, who, after traveling a great distance to see California Adventure would have to settle for Disneyland instead. Yeargin and other Disneyland executives made decisions based on this premise. Including a now infamous decision by Disneyland Resort President, Cynthia Harriss, to restrict Annual Passholders from using their passes at Disney's California Adventure for the first few months after opening. This decision only served to anger the already disgruntled 400,000 passholders who provide a significant amount of revenue for the resort. Harriss and Yeargin, like many of the Disneyland executives, had followed Pressler over from the Disney Stores and had no previous theme park experience. Then in February 2001, the world saw what had been festering behind closed doors at WDI for the past several years. Disney's California Adventure opening in the old Disneyland parking lot. It was a mix of off-the-shelf carnival rides and film-based attractions. When Walt's close friend and long-time Imagineer, John Hench, saw the park for the first time he said, "I liked it better as a parking lot." WDI would try to fix California Adventure any way they could. They threw attractions at it left and right...Who Wants to be A Millionaire, a bug's land, The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror, even the Main Street Electrical Parade would come out of moth balls. None of it worked, of course. <<
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "LOL, I'm starting to think some of you work for the Bush administration" Ahhh! Bite your tongue, WD! I might have to have you admined for that. LOL.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "I think you proved your point buddy." Really? Um, I don't think so. If anything, it's even more preposterous. savedisney.com? Puh-leeze. This is actually getting stupid... ahem... funny now.
Originally Posted By berol "I think you proved your point buddy." But we were talking about if DCA is currently detrimental to the resort, how much if so, what the future holds and if you can call the park a failure depending on what definition you use. Little of the flood applies to that. However, the LP Live bug that made it sound like Disney was counting on Doobie, Fanboy and a couple others was hilarious!
Originally Posted By WorldDisney "I think you proved your point buddy." <<Really? Um, I don't think so. If anything, it's even more preposterous.>> Well, I would LOVE to see all those flood of articles that talk about how DCA is a tremendous sucess and all the people, figures and etc to at least talk about how HAPPY and how well it's doing today. You can start with something by Disney . Again, alll these articles and people just brush them aside. Meanwhile TRUST ME, if DCA was pulling in the numbers, attendance and etc, Disney would be out in full force talking about how well DCA is doing.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Good grief WorldDisney. No one is saying that DCA is pulling the numbers as originally planned. What I am saying is that we do not know if Disney has deemed a place a failure or not since we don not know what the company’s gauge for failure is. Furthermore, as berol pointed out, the overall discussion is the validity of the claim that DCA has not added to DLR's bottom line. Agree or disagree if you want, but at least acknowledge that we agree on one established fact: DCA hasn’t lived up to the original expectations. Other than everything else is just a conjecture. Sheesh.
