Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<>I don't think a far more elaborate presentation would have made Golden Dreams much more popular than it is now.< This is one of the sillier statements I've seen in this thread. OF COURSE it would be more popular if it were a full blown AA show!>> Not necessarily. If people aren't compelled by a movie on the history of California, why would they suddenly be compelled by an AA show on the history of California? The content would be effectively the same, only the scale of production would be different. And before you say that "scale of production" means everything in this case, look at the Eureka parade. This had the big, Disney scale of production in my opinion. Was it compelling or popular with guests? Sure they canned it too early and only showed it when the park's attendance was at its lowest, but the big scale of production didn't seem to compel the people who were in the park in 2001. If WDI is incapable of writing a script for a California movie which actually creates word-of-mouth and becomes a must-see attraction, what makes WDI suddenly capable of writing a script for a California AA show which DOES create word-of-mouth? (For the record, I enjoy Golden Dreams and was a fan of Eureka.)
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>they canned it too early and only showed it when the park's attendance was at its lowest, but the big scale of production didn't seem to compel the people who were in the park in 2001.<< I disagree. It is one of the few elements of the original DCA roster that seemed to garner almost all positive response here on the boards. Even people who don't like the park liked what they saw in that parade. I think it was closed because of costs more than anything, which is reallly a shame.
Originally Posted By Nemo88 "It's my opinion that most people don't go to theme parks to watch a 20 minute movie that recreates historical events. They have the History Channel for that." Is that why Lincoln doesnt do that well at Disneyland? too much of a "history lesson" right?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss In fairness, the Lincoln show *wasn't* all that popular. Aside from when I went in the 60's, It's rare when I have seen that show with more than half the seats filled... when the last refurb took place there was some excitement about it, but that soon died off.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> So an attraction that is more Disney, in a park you feel is avoid of Disney, wouldn't be a good thing? << It wouldn't be worth it, in that it probably would offer all the bang for the buck that installing Epcot's American Adventure in a Six Flags Magic Mountain or a Knott's would have on those type of parks. In other words, such a modification would make second-rate places better, but not to the degree than one can claim, for example, that Great Moments with Lincoln is the make-or-break point of Disneyland's Main Street, much less Disneyland in general. >> But compare a film to a big AA show and the AA's will win, every time! << I do agree that an American Adventures as a film would play to far smaller audiences. Certainly a film on Lincoln would be playing to mostly empty rooms (or far emptier rooms) than what the single Lincoln audioanimatronic at Disneyland or the dozens of them at Orlando's Magic Kingdom currently experience on an average basis. However, the shelf life of such attractions apparently is not too lengthy, or is not going to have a level of popularity that's much above the now-defunct Country Bears Jamboree at Disneyland. I think the combination of a static stage-type presentation and the provincial theme of "California" makes Golden Dreams an inherent castor-oil-of-Disney attraction, even if it were fancier than a pair of talking Whoopi heads. >> Don'tcha love the logic that Country Bears wouldn't have been any more/less popular as a film attraction than an AA extravaganza. << Huh? If you're referring to my comment of "if County Bears had been merely a film presentation, you can be sure the DisCo would have dumped it years ago," then the way you interpreted that is beyond me.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher I should add that a history lesson on California -- assuming the general concept of Golden Dreams is even worth saving -- presented in a manner similar to a Pirates ride-through would strike me as offering more promise. However, if one uses the example of the elaborate audioanimatronic-laden Sinbad ride-through attraction at DisneySea, then it is suprising that particular creation is not nearly as much of a big draw as I thought it would be. So ultimately predicting the popularity (or lack of such) of many things isn't written in stone.
Originally Posted By danyoung > If people aren't compelled by a movie on the history of California, why would they suddenly be compelled by an AA show on the history of California? The content would be effectively the same, only the scale of production would be different.< It's true that an AA show by itself is no guarantee of success. Look at that Mickey Mouse AA show that opened with the MK - it didn't do so well here, although it seemed to thrive once they moved it to TDL. But I think it's a no brainer that just by the nature of a large stage AA show similar to The American Adventure that you'd have a much richer script, some great characters (although I'm not sure how many compelling AA characters you could get out of California's history, come to think of it), and as you mentioned a larger scale of production. If they put all of that together with a good story then of course it would be a huge hit. I actually really like Golden Dreams, but I don't see much of a repeat factor. I'll see it maybe every other year. And with the large local base in SoCal, I'd guess that most people feel pretty much the same. A simple, non-3D, non-AA supported movie ain't gonna have much longevity in a Disney park. Eisner, Braverman & Co. should have known that.
Originally Posted By deadmentellnotales What's next for DCA? a bulldozer and Ty Pennington with a bullhorn...
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <It's my opinion that most people don't go to theme parks to watch a 20 minute movie that recreates historical events. They have the History Channel for that.> But 'American Adventure' in World Showcase does just that -- and clocks in longer than 20 minutes. And 'American Adventure' is one of the most amazing shows I've ever seen in a theme park. I often hear the comment that 'Golden Dreams' isn't what 'people want' in a theme park. Eh. It's not like you're paying $50 to just see 'Golden Dreams.' It's one part of your visit. Who'd a thought that people would pay $8-$10.00 to watch 'March of the Penguins' -- the type of show you could watch on Animal Planet for free.
Originally Posted By idleHands "Who'd a thought that people would pay $8-$10.00 to watch 'March of the Penguins' -- the type of show you could watch on Animal Planet for free." Which is precisely why I didn't see it in the theatre. But would have gladly plunked down fifteen bucks to see penguins in 3-D IMAX!!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "I often hear the comment that 'Golden Dreams' isn't what 'people want' in a theme park." Right. The ironic thing is that each of Disney's parks have traditionally had at least two or three of these kinds of presentations - The American Adventure, Meet the World, America the Beautiful, Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln, Impressions de France, and so forth and so on. It should be no surprise then that DCA has such a show.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA ^^^Exactly Hans. You know what's weird? I actually enjoy those types of presentations, and still miss CircleVision 360 at Disneyland. Movie presentations are just one part of the Disneyland experience. It doesn't all have to be RIDES!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Again, we totally agree. I am so bummed they pulled out 360's to put in Buzz in DL and DLP. I love the circarama presentations. I do not do Disney for rides (I did as a child), I spend my hard earned money and time at Disney for experiences, and films are a part of that. Any idiot can build a coaster. Disney (and maybe Busch) seem to be the only people who do quality edutainment.
Originally Posted By danyoung >It doesn't all have to be RIDES!< True, but the other presentations you mentioned were all multimedia, or at least multi-screen: The American Adventure - multi-movie, multi-AA show. Meet the World - I don't know what this is. America the Beautiful - CircleVision 360 show. Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln - movie (well, more of a fancy slide show) with a pioneering AA figure. Impressions de France - 5-screen show (IMO, much better format than the CircleVision format). The problem with Golden Dreams isn't that it's historical. It's that, other than a couple of quick appearances by Whoopi in the 3D heads, it's basically a simple single screen movie. The only other single screen movie I can think of in a U.S. Disney park is the Circle of Life movie in Epcot's The Land pavilion. And you can attribute its success to its location in a popular pavilion. BTW, what's Meet the World?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Meet the World was a show in Tokyo Disneyland's Tomorrowland. Used the Carousel theatre to tell the history of Japan. right?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss ^^Kinda-sorta. The presentation took place on a rotating stage, while the audience seating remained fixed. Additionally, there was a track above the auditorium that allowed a faux hot air balloon to soar above the audience, somewhat like how Jasmine and Aladdin ride a magic carpet at the DCA show.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA thanks for the clarification trekkuruss. It's been years since I visited Tokyo Disneyland. Oh, wait, I've never been... *sob*
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<But I think it's a no brainer that just by the nature of a large stage AA show similar to The American Adventure that you'd have a much richer script,>> This is the point I can't get past. I think American Adventure is an awesome show. I'm going to WDW in April and I will be very upset if CoP is not open. I love AA shows. But if they can't write a script for the California movie, WHY would they suddenly be able to write "a much richer script" for the AA extravaganza?! The "nature" of a show does not write the script for you, Show Writers do! And they would be the same show writers who wrote Golden Dreams!
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I think the script for 'Golden Dreams' is excellent. And I'm one of the wierd ones who like Whoopi Goldberg. I thought Disney missed the boat [again] by not having a walk-around face character of Califa. Even have her appear in her more regal costume in front of 'Golden Dreams' theater. And in Paradise Pier, have her in her turn-of-the-century costume, etc... But I digress...
