Originally Posted By Mr X Helen Thomas is great, but these days I think she's dissilusioned from 8 years of the worst President we've ever had. On the optimistic side, here's part of what Ted Kennedy wrote to President Obama, to be delivered posthumously... "I saw your conviction that the time is now and witnessed your unwavering commitment and understanding that health care is a decisive issue for our future prosperity. But you have also reminded all of us that it concerns more than material things; that what we face is above all a moral issue; that at stake are not just the details of policy, but fundamental principles of social justice and the character of our country. And so because of your vision and resolve, I came to believe that soon, very soon, affordable health coverage will be available to all, in an America where the state of a family's health will never again depend on the amount of a family's wealth." <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/kennedy-letter-to-obama-at-stake-is-the-character-of-our-country.php" target="_blank">http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo...ntry.php</a> Now, do you think this is simply a political note meant to cajole him or something? That's certainly possible, but I don't get that impression from the wording. To me, it sounds as though Kennedy (a guy who knows the President a lot better than most of us do) truly believed in President Obama's vision character, and abilities.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << To me, it sounds as though Kennedy (a guy who knows the President a lot better than most of us do) truly believed in President Obama's vision character, and abilities. >> Yes, that's what it sounds like. But look at the product we are getting. If the President gets to sign anything resembling the bill that just passed the House, is he going to do a victory lap? It is the most watered down, ineffective approach to health care reform that we could have possibly gotten. It does nothing to change the inevitability of Medicare insolvency in 8 years, keeps the insurance industry in the driver's seat, and offers the most anemic government option. It is health care reform in name only.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 From several different articles and shows that I have seen over the past couple of months I have gotten the impression that Obama is quietly trying to make things happen behind the scenes. Just because we do not see him on TV every day voicing his opinion at the top of his lungs like the other side is doing, it does not mean that he does not care or is not trying to get it done.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << From several different articles and shows that I have seen over the past couple of months I have gotten the impression that Obama is quietly trying to make things happen behind the scenes. >> That's all fine and good, but what is the end result going to be? A watered down health care reform bill that doesn't accomplish anything substantive? You can be quiet and behind the scenes -- but you also need to produce results. So far, the behind the scenes plan is resulting in compromised legislation that doesn't make either side happy.
Originally Posted By Spyderman yea your right sport goofy Obama doesn't care about healthcare reform. Afterall his mom only died because of the poor healthcare system in this country and all he did was make it a centerpiece of his campaign. But your right he doesn't care.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy ^^ If he cared all that much, we would be getting health care reform instead of the legislative equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Originally Posted By Spyderman I don't see whats wrong with the healthcare bill that just passed in congress. It would add a public option, ban pre-existing conditions and extra charges based on gender/family history. It would also remove an anti-trust exemption and expand coverage to 96% of Americans. How is that anemic? It seems to add alot of good regulation to the corrupt health care industry.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***If he cared all that much, we would be getting health care reform instead of the legislative equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.*** I call shenanigans. The President is getting as much as he can, and I feel damned sure he worked his ass off to get just that much. He's got Republicans up his ass, calling him a traitor who'll be the death of us all, and then on top of that he's got Blue Dog scumbags fighting his every move for a piece of THEIR pie, not to mention outright pricks like Lieberman willing to throw a wrench in the whole works just for kicks (and kickbacks). On the other side, he's got Kucinich and his merry band of "left is best" jerks saying if the bill ain't perfect, screw it! (Kucinich, by the way, voted "against"...nice knife sticking out of the Presidents back, I say). And on top of that you've got the religious politicians who'd rather kill the bill than offer any compromise to "abortion is murder, and health care makes it state sanctioned!", so he's got that whole whack-a-doo contingent to deal with. You say the President hasn't done anything, *I* say the President is dealing with a system that sucks and is far worse than it was in the past (at least you could get SOME bipartisanship back in the day...now? FUGETABOUTIT). And that on top of inheriting the crap Bush left behind, and the resulting America which is half the country I remember it to be (mostly because half the country wants to freakin rebel and overthrow!). If I were Barack Obama I'd probably want to blow my own head off right about now, God Bless him for continuing to strive for change (I can only imagine some nights he retires thinking "this is just impossible").
Originally Posted By DAR <<It sickens me the amount of selfishness I see from Americans today.>> Sure there's selfishness from some quarters. But at a time when people are struggling to keep their homes, their jobs, worrying if they can put food on the table, you're priorities have to go to you and your family first.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << The President is getting as much as he can, and I feel damned sure he worked his ass off to get just that much. >> He never asked for very much in the first place. Single payer was never on the table. The much talked about public option has been consistently downplayed by the White House. He immediately offered concessions to the health insurance and pharmaceutical industry to keep them off of his back. Is a little bit of health care reform better than no health reform? I'm not so sure. I certainly want some sort of bill to pass, but I also recognize that the underlying problems that necessitate this legislation are not being addressed and the nation's long-term viability is at risk for not taking strong enough action now.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***He never asked for very much in the first place. Single payer was never on the table.*** The simple fact that your "rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic" bill BARELY passed should give you a clue as to why asking for more would've been akin to pissing into the wind. Don't you agree?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Is a little bit of health care reform better than no health reform? I'm not so sure.*** YES, let's just go with NOTHING! In the meantime, I will remain a health care refugee in Japan and my family will be taken care of medically regardless of whatever else happens to us. Will yours?
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << The simple fact that your "rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic" bill BARELY passed should give you a clue as to why asking for more would've been akin to pissing into the wind. Don't you agree? >> The problem is that the President never forcefully played his hand or asked for anything more. It was a compromise strategy from the start, and the outcome is not surprisingly an extremely compromised solution. Go back about 8 years and look at how George W. Bush ram-rodded tax cuts for the wealthy through Congress without any significant debate. Look at how he forced the Patriot Act on Americans, an energy bill written by the oil companies, no child lefts behind, a war for oil in Iraq, and every other piece of stinky legislation. There was no compromise there. As much as I loathe George W. Bush, I can't fault him for being terribly ineffective in getting his agenda through Congress. The Democrats fail to understand that a protracted debate on these issues is not in their favor. By letting this whole episode become a long, drawn out legislative process, the bills in the House and Senate became more watered down with each passing day. That process is not even complete, and I suspect the final bill will be more watered down than the ones in the Congress now. Time is not on the side of the President in these sorts of negotiations. Early in the summer, he recognized this by asking Congress to pass legislation by August. Congress thumbed their nose at the President's request and we ended up with the circus of health care reform that continues. The President should have been far more demanding. While I appreciate President Obama's penchant for compromise and desire for bi-partisanship, the environment doesn't support that sort of effort yet. He needs to act more forcefully and keep his opponents unable to catch up because he is moving so swiftly on his agenda. There has been nothing swift about the first 10 months of the Obama agenda, and it gets more bogged down with each passing day. Is this purely the President's fault? No. The Democrats in Congress clearly have no game plan to enact meaningful legislation swiftly. It leads you to wonder what they have been doing for the past decade or so while the Republicans were in power. They should have been working on finalizing a health care package during those years that would have been ready for a vote on the first day of the Obama presidency. Instead, we get a complete legislative mess.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << In the meantime, I will remain a health care refugee in Japan and my family will be taken care of medically regardless of whatever else happens to us. Will yours? >> I'm fortunate enough to already be on the government's health care plan -- at least up until the point where the government goes bankrupt and there's no health care for anyone. That's my selfish motive for wanting more substantive reform -- the government can't afford the escalating costs. My future health care and pension are at risk because we are not fixing these problems today. We have an opportunity to solve these issues now before they become insolvable, but we don't have the leadership to recognize the weight of that challenge.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***The problem is that the President never forcefully played his hand or asked for anything more. It was a compromise strategy from the start, and the outcome is not surprisingly an extremely compromised solution.*** And as I mentioned, even the compromise barely passed. Would you prefer he got heavy handed only to have his ass handed to him by his fellow Democrats? ***Go back about 8 years and look at how George W. Bush ram-rodded tax cuts for the wealthy through Congress without any significant debate. Look at how he forced the Patriot Act on Americans, an energy bill written by the oil companies, no child lefts behind, a war for oil in Iraq, and every other piece of stinky legislation*** Yup, and he is now the most reviled President in modern history (perhaps of all time, when the jury gets back to us). You'd suggest Obama follow any of HIS playbook? I think not.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***We have an opportunity to solve these issues now before they become insolvable, but we don't have the leadership to recognize the weight of that challenge.*** You're probably right, but even so I wouldn't blame Obama for the many decades of idiocy that brought us to this point. I think he's doing what he can, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while longer.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << And as I mentioned, even the compromise barely passed. Would you prefer he got heavy handed only to have his ass handed to him by his fellow Democrats? >> I think a more heavy handed strategy would have brought the Democrats in line. It's a question of leadership strategy. And, of course, I'm no fan of either Representative Pelosi or Senator Reid's leadership of their Democratic caucuses in the House and Senate. They are both incredibly weak leaders. << Yup, and he is now the most reviled President in modern history (perhaps of all time, when the jury gets back to us). You'd suggest Obama follow any of HIS playbook? >> I'd suggest that it wasn't President Bush's playbook that made him reviled -- it was the people writing the plays.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I think he's doing what he can, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while longer. >> We have a little less than 6 months left before Congress stops doing anything whatsoever and shifts to campaign mode. Don't be surprised if we find ourselves with a Republican controlled Congress in 2010 and unable to anything at all for the foreseeable future. I will be extremely upset if we pissed away a year of a Democratically controlled Congress and executive branch without accomplishing any change to the course of our country.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I think a more heavy handed strategy would have brought the Democrats in line.*** No way in hell. I do agree with you that stronger leadership is needed, but as it stands now!!?? No way in hell. The Blue Dogs hold all the cards. Just look at Lieberman threatening to kill the whole thing himself. Who's reigning him in? Who can?
