Originally Posted By davewasbaloo My point is EE, I am an American living in Europe. And my children are going to very much know about their roots. It is my duty as a parent. This is also important for the folks in your community. Once you travel and get outside of America, perhaps you will have a different take on the issue. Should MR X ignore his American roots and only do Japanese things because he lives in Tokyo? How do you know these people do not assimilate in different ways? Or have the opportunity to do so? Do you speak Seminole?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer I think you misunderstand me, Dave...Assimilation isn't the issue. I, by no means want them to assimilate...I want them just to respect the country of their residence enough to be patriotic! To consider themselves Americans, and to call this nation their home...not what they left behind, as home. They came here for our rights, am I correct? Why not honor that? But assimilate? No... We need to further our cultures, and our pasts, and history. I walk a odd line here, in discussion...I could probably explain this better in person. Or if you lived here, and saw what I was referring to. Sorry...*sheepish grin*
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I "saw it" when I lived in California in the 70's and 80's. It is not a new phenomenon. But it is a part of sharing a culture. To me I find gun toting, bible bashing yehaws to be some of the least palletable people in America, but there are a part of the rich tapestry too. I find the lack of tolerance and the denial of human rights of various groups to be disgusting. We will not always get along, and as long as immigrants are not hurting anyone, should they not be allowed to have a voice and think what they would like as much as the Palin followers?
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 I have no problem with people remembring their roots. It's what made them what they are. But if you are going to live and earn a living in a country, my thinking is you better become a part of that country. There is a reason your anchestors left "the old country". And if you think the old country is so great, then go back there.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Sigh. I need to move " I'll trade you my house in Canada for where ever you libe in FL.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I want them just to respect the country of their residence enough to be patriotic! << You have much to learn, young lawyer. >> I could probably explain this better in person. Or if you lived here, and saw what I was referring to. << Writing dissertations for a discussion board is no fun, I understand. I respect the entire "New England" cultural origins that you revere, but I also think it's myopic to pretend that the Spanish weren't here before the Pilgrims. Especially for people in Florida. Actually that's one of the things that I found most attractive about Florida when I moved here: it wasn't like the other places I'd lived in the United States (admittedly, I'd never lived west of the Mississippi). One of the things I like most about Miami is its cultural diversity. But there's one thing I've learned from living many bored and painful years in Atlanta--if you don't like a place, MOVE! So sounds like you know where you want to move to, which is a good start!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The outlook for raising children like this is very close minded and bleak in Miami... It's not open to where "we" are now...Just where we were. >> Please don't scare my friend Dave off as I'd really like him to come for a visit to our little 'bleak' piece of paradise! ~Did I mention we have IKEA now?~
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I "saw it" when I lived in California in the 70's and 80's. It is not a new phenomenon. But it is a part of sharing a culture. To me I find gun toting, bible bashing yehaws to be some of the least palletable people in America, but there are a part of the rich tapestry too. I find the lack of tolerance and the denial of human rights of various groups to be disgusting. <<< I heartily agree, however, I feel that, and I might be a bit forward in saying this, that they are NOT sharing. It's only about their culture, and they could not care for the rest of us. Which is shameful both to them and to us. >>>We will not always get along, and as long as immigrants are not hurting anyone, should they not be allowed to have a voice and think what they would like as much as the Palin followers?<<< Of course not. Some have their voice, and they use it well, I might add. The issue, for me, are those stuck living in "their" past, "their" culture, "their" country. It's not "their's" any more. THIS is now their country. Honor THIS country by bringing your culture to it, and participating in it...not just where you came from. We have grand celebrations on Cale Ocho in Miami...But not on Independence Day. That pains me. Most do not even know what the day stands for. We were at our town's pyro show, and the family next to us had children. The young children were asking why we had this Holiday. None of the parents knew. Finally, a older sibling spoke up and gave a very luke warm description of our break with Britain. (Being a History Major, I probably expected too much from her response, but even, at 10-11 years of age, you should know a bit more than "This is the day we left England". (I blame our wonderful education system as well...) However, ask them about another Holiday? They'd know. And the terrible thing was, they looked as though they had been here a long time. They had a respectable car, well clothed... This is only one instance out of many that, I think, supports my claim a bit. But anyone, ANYONE is better than Palin!!!!! ;-) LOL.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>I have no problem with people remembring their roots. It's what made them what they are. But if you are going to live and earn a living in a country, my thinking is you better become a part of that country. There is a reason your anchestors left "the old country". And if you think the old country is so great, then go back there.<<<< HIT IT ON THE HEAD, MADAME. Thank you.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I'll trade you my house in Canada for where ever you libe in FL.<<< Done! >>>You have much to learn, young lawyer.<<< Without sounding foppish about my education, I will say that I am constantly learning, and reformulating opinions. I do ask you, however, what aspect of my education, I need to improve to alter these opinions, so that they are more likable to you... these, after all are my thoughts, and I hope that I am putting them out in a manor that isn't disrespectful, as I very much like discussion with the people on this board. >>> but I also think it's myopic to pretend that the Spanish weren't here before the Pilgrims. Especially for people in Florida. Actually that's one of the things that I found most attractive about Florida when I moved here: it wasn't like the other places I'd lived in the United States (admittedly, I'd never lived west of the Mississippi). One of the things I like most about Miami is its cultural diversity. But there's one thing I've learned from living many bored and painful years in Atlanta--if you don't like a place, MOVE! So sounds like you know where you want to move to, which is a good start!<<< Again, agreed, but I offer the opinion again, on the hear and now. We are in the United States. We do a superb job of honoring the past in other places while being progressive about how we honor and think about today. We just need to do that in Miami.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>> Please don't scare my friend Dave off as I'd really like him to come for a visit to our little 'bleak' piece of paradise! ~Did I mention we have IKEA now?~<<< Paradise? Heh. Since our return from The North, as it were, our new family slogan is "We Want To Leave Paradise." (Reminds me of those new NBC 6 commercials showing the "grace" and "beauty" of Florida. Puke. ) >>>~Did I mention we have IKEA now?~<<< That's more magical than some WDW Toilets!!!!!!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I have so many friends in the UK that say their dream is to pack up and move to Florida. My response is always "why?". ;-) EE - FWIW, I am trying to get you to consider some alternatives, that's all. Sadly, you live in a place that does not have a lot of free programmes to better help immigrants learn English and assimilate. I used to think like you do, then I emigrated. You might think going from the US to the UK would be easy with a common language and all that. It isn't. It is even harder when there is a new language to learn. Thankfully I like learning new languages. But the other thing to consider is America is diverse. I consider myself a citizen of the world before all else, then if pushed a San Franciscan or Californian before an American. And I feel more in common with a New Yorker than say someone from the Ozarks. Not everyone is the same. I would rather be speaking Spanish in a Baro before attending bible class in the South. Different strokes.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Sadly, you live in a place that does not have a lot of free programmes to better help immigrants learn English and assimilate<<< I don't agree with that at all...There are tons of opportunities in my opinion, especially in today's world. >>>But the other thing to consider is America is diverse. I consider myself a citizen of the world before all else, then if pushed a San Franciscan or Californian before an American. And I feel more in common with a New Yorker than say someone from the Ozarks. Not everyone is the same. I would rather be speaking Spanish in a Baro before attending bible class in the South. Different strokes.<<< Again, I think you have my complaints confused...I am in now way against diversity, and different culture. I would put intelligence before anything. However... I just want people to be a bit more thankful and a bit more respectful to the country that has taken them in, and given the opportunity to live and work, when they obviously have come here for those reasons. It's one thing to honor your traditions and cultures, another to totally hang on to the country you left, and left for a reason. It was "home", and I can understand the longing to return to your roots, but in the end, there's a lot to say about the place you went to in the first place. My grandparents immigrated here from Russia and Poland. Did they talk of the "Old Country"? Of course. Did they still cook in the traditions they had been raised in? Yeah, I saved all their recipes. But my grandfather was one of most political, proud and patriotic people I knew. He knew his History. He knew his politics. And he loved the fact that he was in the United States. That's what I would love to see happen down here. But I doubt it will... I think people in this generation are too bitter, too ignorant, and too close minded to still think like that. Sadly, I know this, because I see it all around me. I just hope I don't end up like that. Interesting what you can talk about on a Disney Board, huh?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo This is not just a Disney board, this is Laughing Place dot com. An interesting global community. Similarly, my great grandfather was the first born in America, his parents were from Sicily, and although he and his children spoke Italian and Sicilian, and cooked it, he insisted only English be spoken in the home. But I do not get hung up on this, perhaps because in the UK, English is the official language, but Welsh, Galic, and Cornish are also still spoken. Or how I have friends who try to keep their tribal languages spoken in the US (and even sometimes deny their hearts when it comes to marriage to keep the native american blood line alive). For every ignorant immigration family there is, I would imagine there are five who try to fit in and respect. Same for disrespectful youths vs. good kids. I love the fact that when I went to have my BP taken, there were 7 other languages being spoken in the waiting room. I thought it was awesome and would like to see more of a globalist approach. To me, nationalism and jingoism can be really dangerous. But respect is required too. I like to think I get the balance just about there in our house, but I would still rather watch baseball than soccer, read about the old west than the industrial revolution, and I still love putting BBQ ribs on a pit.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> For every ignorant immigration family there is, I would imagine there are five who try to fit in and respect. Same for disrespectful youths vs. good kids.<<< While I agree with the premise, I don't agree with the numbering...Perhaps, in Miami, it is revered. >>>To me, nationalism and jingoism can be really dangerous. But respect is required too. I like to think I get the balance just about there in our house, but I would still rather watch baseball than soccer, read about the old west than the industrial revolution, and I still love putting BBQ ribs on a pit.<<< agreed. Especially on nationalism...That only leads to a "us" vs "them" approach, and that never ends well. But like you said...a BALANCE. I believe Boston had that. I know New York has that. I'm sure the UK has that. But Miami is very hard pressed to find that balance.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> But my grandfather was one of most political, proud and patriotic people I knew. He knew his History. He knew his politics. And he loved the fact that he was in the United States. << It's a different world and a different time. The planet has been globalized. The illusion of independent nations, patriotism, etc. is just that--an illusion.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> But Miami is very hard pressed to find that balance. << It doesn't need balance, it needs to be rid of people demanding assimilation.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Without sounding foppish about my education, I will say that I am constantly learning, and reformulating opinions. I do ask you, however, what aspect of my education, I need to improve to alter these opinions, so that they are more likable to you... these, after all are my thoughts, and I hope that I am putting them out in a manor that isn't disrespectful, as I very much like discussion with the people on this board. << Your opinions are your opinions, and I'm glad you have them and can articulate them. That's a good quality to have in college. >> Again, agreed, but I offer the opinion again, on the hear and now. We are in the United States. We do a superb job of honoring the past in other places while being progressive about how we honor and think about today. We just need to do that in Miami. << I hate to get all "revisionist", but when you say that other areas of the county do a good job of honoring the past, do you mean that western states do a good job honoring the displacement of Native Americans? Or do you mean that other areas subscribe to the official American mythology about the Founding Fathers and "liberty" (what's that even mean today?) and George Washington and the like? I frankly have no problem with people choosing not to honor that mythology, especially since it's been distorted in recent times (Glenn Beck comes immediately to mind.)
