Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>So will you be attending Harvard School of Law EE?<<< That's the dream... Boston College..Boston University...any of them would be nice. I will take them into account when I begin planning for that time in my life, and hopefully the dream becomes a reality. As it stands right now, however, I go to FIU. FIU also has the best Law Program in the state of Florida. And...being a state school, it is cheaper. So...that will come in to play too, I am sure.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>It's a different world and a different time. The planet has been globalized. The illusion of independent nations, patriotism, etc. is just that--an illusion.<<< I don't believe that. While I do believe that the world is shrinking, and we are becoming more alike than different (a good thing!) we are still separated,and still independent. Of course, co-dependant would be a better term... And how can patriotism no longer exist? I still love this country, it's history, it's people...Is that not patriotism?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>It doesn't need balance, it needs to be rid of people demanding assimilation.<<< Bad wording on my part, and on yours, if you don't mind me saying...It's not balance, nor is it assimilation. I think it is respect, and simply that that citizens should honor the country that provides them these freedoms instead of the country that they left to gain said freedoms. Putting culture aside, it seems the right thing to do, in my mind. Of course, we can not distance ourselves from our cultures, so it becomes a very hard thing to do! Heh.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 don't want to distance myself from my culture either- but American first- heritage second- that's why my ancestors came here.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Your opinions are your opinions, and I'm glad you have them and can articulate them. That's a good quality to have in college.<<< thank you! >>> I hate to get all "revisionist", but when you say that other areas of the county do a good job of honoring the past, do you mean that western states do a good job honoring the displacement of Native Americans? Or do you mean that other areas subscribe to the official American mythology about the Founding Fathers and "liberty" (what's that even mean today?) and George Washington and the like? I frankly have no problem with people choosing not to honor that mythology, especially since it's been distorted in recent times (Glenn Beck comes immediately to mind.)<<< And without being revisionist, I can answer that NOW, in the directly present time, I can say that YES, we are beginning to talk about the "dirty" past, and how we haven't always been the "right" side of the war. 20 years ago, I could not have said that to you. And honestly...I don't watch (or can I abide) Glenn Beck...(and the rest of Fox...) so I don't know whta myths you speak of.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>No offense, of course, EE!<<< Never, sir! You should know by now that I enjoy the toilet talk, and this, too. ;-)
Originally Posted By leobloom >> FIU also has the best Law Program in the state of Florida. And...being a state school, it is cheaper. So...that will come in to play too, I am sure. << Is Stanley Fish still a law professor at FIU? >> Bad wording on my part, and on yours, if you don't mind me saying... << I agree with that. >> It's not balance, nor is it assimilation. I think it is respect, and simply that that citizens should honor the country that provides them these freedoms instead of the country that they left to gain said freedoms. << I don't know if it's honoring the country they left so much as it's honoring their heritage, or family ties, or simply wishing they could have stayed in their country of origin, but perhaps recognizing it wasn't a safe place to be. Or perhaps they expected to find more opportunities in the US. I don't know how I would feel if I immigrated to the US today, but I don't necessarily think I would want to "disown" my roots just because I'm here.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> we are beginning to talk about the "dirty" past, and how we haven't always been the "right" side of the war. 20 years ago, I could not have said that to you. << I think the revisionist push started to gain traction in the 1980s, which would be a little more than 20 years ago, but the fact that revisionist history has been around for at least 20 years and it hasn't affected the political discourse says a lot. Bush II subscribed to all the talk about taking "liberty" and "democracy" to the Middle East, never thought twice that there could be cultural differences that might impede that. As soon as we get a president who *might* acknowledge the complexities of American history (and I'm not saying that Obama or his speechwriters would go that far, but he seems more likely than any president in recent memory), he's branded a foreigner, a terrorist, a Muslim, a socialist, a communist... ...which is to say I think revisionist history hasn't made much impact on serious mainstream discourse.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I have no problem with people remembring their roots. It's what made them what they are. But if you are going to live and earn a living in a country, my thinking is you better become a part of that country. There is a reason your anchestors left "the old country". And if you think the old country is so great, then go back there. << That is so completely true. I certainly wouldn't move to France to live, then try to set up my own little American colony there. Remember my roots, of course. Still speak English in my own house, of course. But you better believe once I went out those doors in the morning I would try to fit in as best I could with the French, and I would be speaking their language exclusively.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Reminds me of those new NBC 6 commercials showing the "grace" and "beauty" of Florida. << There's plenty of grace and beauty in Florida if you leave the developers and Disney behind. >> We have grand celebrations on Cale Ocho in Miami...But not on Independence Day. That pains me. Most do not even know what the day stands for. We were at our town's pyro show, and the family next to us had children. The young children were asking why we had this Holiday. None of the parents knew. Finally, a older sibling spoke up and gave a very luke warm description of our break with Britain. (Being a History Major, I probably expected too much from her response, but even, at 10-11 years of age, you should know a bit more than "This is the day we left England". (I blame our wonderful education system as well...) << I think your passion for history is biasing your view. You're upset that immigrants aren't appreciating the Fourth of July. But you know you could find American youth who don't understand what it represents, either. (Think of all those surveys where 4% of the population knows what the Declaration of Independence or the Bill or Rights is.) I'm a literature student, and I could have the same complaint about the ignorance of most Americans when it comes to American (or World) Literature. A lot of people would argue this history and literary knowledge is pointless. Wall Street doesn't care about it, CEOs of Fortune 500 companies aren't ostensibly using this knowledge to profit. So what's its value? Zip, zero, nada. Now, you and I understand that this knowledge has immense cultural value--and with it you can more ably critique and understand American culture. Which is why I'm surprised that you have--from my perspective--a narrow view of the immigrant experience in South Florida. The first wave of Cuban immigrants fleeing Castro always expected to go back as soon as he was deposed. Florida was a temporary home until they could return to Cuba. Obviously that never happened, but I think that sense of "temporary home" is still prevalent in Florida. With immigrants from other countries and from other states. You know how many people living in Florida don't call Florida home. Home is Michigan, or Ohio, or New Jersey. Florida is a winter home (if you're a snowbird), or a place where you're going to move from as soon as you finish your college degree. Bottom line: many people in Florida are reluctant to embrace Florida's culture. Maybe that's why Disney's escapism is appealing to tourists. They get to vacation in Florida (by now an American tradition) but they don't have to face the social and cultural complexity that's off-property. Dissertation over.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Sigh. I need to move " I'll trade you my house in Canada for where ever you libe in FL. << Canada rates right at the top of countrys with the happiest citizens.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> But if you are going to live and earn a living in a country, my thinking is you better become a part of that country. There is a reason your anchestors left "the old country". And if you think the old country is so great, then go back there. << Ah, xenophobia at its finest. By the way, if a person is paying taxes to the government, they can be as anti-assimilationist as they please as far as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Of course not. Some have their voice, and they use it well, I might add. The issue, for me, are those stuck living in "their" past, "their" culture, "their" country. It's not "their's" any more. THIS is now their country. Honor THIS country by bringing your culture to it, and participating in it...not just where you came from. << Your beating a dead Horse EE. Cubans have taken over Miami, and are turning it into the country that they fled from. Anybody that lives there knows that. Just like the immigrants that are invading Europe right now, and taking thousands of years of culture, and attempting to wash it out, and replace it with their own. If you speak out against such nonsense you are labeled a racist, and a bigot. That's the reason you have tiptoed around what you would really like to say. For me I have long since stopped worrying about offending anybody when it comes to my beliefs, and principles.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Is Stanley Fish still a law professor at FIU?<<< I didn't know the name, but I googled him, and yes, he is. WOW. Happy to have him. >>>I don't know if it's honoring the country they left so much as it's honoring their heritage, or family ties, or simply wishing they could have stayed in their country of origin, but perhaps recognizing it wasn't a safe place to be. Or perhaps they expected to find more opportunities in the US. I don't know how I would feel if I immigrated to the US today, but I don't necessarily think I would want to "disown" my roots just because I'm here.<<< And that's not what I want them to do either... All I want from them is the respect enough to be proud and to learn and be a part of this country, while still holding on to their roots. Not a melting pot...but a salad bowl community, as my favorite history professor has said many times. Lettuce, tomato, and carrots can all still be different when mixed into the salad, yes? They can retain their differences and characteristics, and tastes... But in the end, they are still part of the salad. Keep your heritage, your traditions, everything...but just acknowledge that you came here for a reason, and you remain here, working today.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> But anyone, ANYONE is better than Palin!!!!! ;-) LOL. << So you think this is a great place now?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I think the revisionist push started to gain traction in the 1980s, which would be a little more than 20 years ago, but the fact that revisionist history has been around for at least 20 years and it hasn't affected the political discourse says a lot. Bush II subscribed to all the talk about taking "liberty" and "democracy" to the Middle East, never thought twice that there could be cultural differences that might impede that. As soon as we get a president who *might* acknowledge the complexities of American history (and I'm not saying that Obama or his speechwriters would go that far, but he seems more likely than any president in recent memory), he's branded a foreigner, a terrorist, a Muslim, a socialist, a communist...<<< I wasn't going that deep...I was just saying how we have finally acknowledged that part of the history.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I think your passion for history is biasing your view. You're upset that immigrants aren't appreciating the Fourth of July. But you know you could find American youth who don't understand what it represents, either. (Think of all those surveys where 4% of the population knows what the Declaration of Independence or the Bill or Rights is.)<<< Oh, I TOTALLY know it is. But still... There is BASIC knowledge to be had here. VERY basic. I'm sorry, but if you don't know that, then that's part of the problem. A BIG part. >>>Which is why I'm surprised that you have--from my perspective--a narrow view of the immigrant experience in South Florida. The first wave of Cuban immigrants fleeing Castro always expected to go back as soon as he was deposed. Florida was a temporary home until they could return to Cuba. Obviously that never happened, but I think that sense of "temporary home" is still prevalent in Florida. With immigrants from other countries and from other states. You know how many people living in Florida don't call Florida home. Home is Michigan, or Ohio, or New Jersey. Florida is a winter home (if you're a snowbird), or a place where you're going to move from as soon as you finish your college degree.<<< That's wrong, then, that's the problem! Why consider this a temporary home if Castro and Communism hasn't left the isle yet? Even if Castro were to leave, and they were free to go, I wonder how many would leave...After all, they have been successful here, and have done quiet well. Most of the original immigrants have their families, their businesses, their lives. However, they still don't consider this home. That's another issue... Can't they give the courtesy of respect to the country that has given them the opportunity to be so successful? The only reason I want to leave, is honestly, I feel that I don't belong here. I stand out, and as I've mentioned...There's none of my history here.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Ah, xenophobia at its finest. By the way, if a person is paying taxes to the government, they can be as anti-assimilationist as they please as far as I'm concerned.<<<Well, that's freedom of speech and freedom of thought at it's very best!
