Originally Posted By MPierce >> Hysterical, Pierce. She has principles? Like when she said Rahm Emanuel should resign for using the word "retarded" but then defended Rush Limbaugh's use of the word as "satire." << Come now Leo. Are you really trying to equate the statment of the White House Chief of Staff, a cabinet level position, to the remark of a pompus a** of an entertainer, commenting on the remark? You folks are desperate now aren't you. Let me use a quote from Mrs Palin's spokesperson in reference to the Limbaugh statment“Governor Palin believes crude and demeaning name calling at the expense of others is disrespectful.”. I feel what Rahm Emanuel said was a off handed remark made in bad taste, I think his apology for the remark was enough. However, I am not a parent of a special needs child. I certainly hope you were as equally offended when Don Imus was fired for an incentive remark, as you seem to be over Governor Palin's position. So are you saying we should hold the cast of Saturday Night Live to the same standards we expect our Government officials to maintain? Is that what you are advocating Leo? How about Family Guy Leo? Should Jon Stewart be as accountable for his remarks as President Obama. It was unfortunate that Mr. Emanuel made his retarded statment in the wake of Mr. Obama's Special Olympics statment. It really seemed to magnify the incident needlessly to me.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Right, this country tries to right injustices as long as its financially profitable to do so. Our financial and political leaders (one and the same) refuse to do business with the Middle East and China because of their human rights issues, right? << So you are advocating an isolationist position for the United States of America Leo?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> And to add to that last post, I never said I had a problem with immigrants....that gives me the connotation of a racist, or a bigot, and I am not that in the slightest. << That's how the game is played EE.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Or the UN! I've been there once...when I was very young. Would love to go now to be able to really appreciate it. << It seems to me the UN is headed in the same general direction as the League of Nations.
Originally Posted By MPierce >>>Oh, for starters, the American Exceptionalism myth, the "liberty and justice for all" myth, etc etc.<<< >> I would not call it a myth... It certainly has existed in our history and in our laws. Has it existed for all in that time? Of course not. We've thankfully corrected that problem... But that doesn't make it a myth. << I believe you are very much correct on this point. Only a fool would ever say this Country is without flaws. You'll make a fine Constitutional Lawyer.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Well, I have voiced these opinions...and I still have quite a diverse group of friends...though...I have gotten some odd looks, like I imagine Leo is giving me...and I am a member of the Democratic Party...so....wait, what? << You are stepping off the reservation of a great party that I use to be a member of. Anytime you get out of line you must be scolded. >> And I wouldn't want them too! I would want them to keep on what they are doing, and I would want them to finally realize they are home. That's all, really. That's the respect I am looking for, << That is certainly a reasonable request. >> I found it up north. People have pride in THIS country, and are proud and happy to be here. << I believe it's all across this Great Nation.
Originally Posted By MPierce >>>>This country tries very hard to right those injustices. You are free to achieve or fail at what ever you chose to be or do here in the States<<< >> NOW we do. 100-150 years ago, we could not have been bothered. << We were a fledgling Nation 100-150 years ago with much to learn. We still are, but we're trying.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Broward as in my Broward? If you ever come to visit... Doom and Gloomers Meeting. This must happen. << Yes, your Broward. I definietly would love to attend one of the Doom, and Gloom meetings, and meet up with you, and Lee, and the Great Turtle Savior of Broward County.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I do have to agree with you here, Leo... I furthermore do not like the way she conducts herself in politics, especially with this whole thing over healthcare. << That's a fair, and honest statment concerning her politics. Exactly what is Palin's stance on healthcare. I'm interested in what you dislike about it?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> It's evidence that Beck makes outrageous statements that have little historical basis. How is Darwin any more a racist than most white British subjects of certain means in the nineteenth-century? And assuming for a moment that Darwin was a racist, how does that make him the "father" of modern-day racism? For some reason, I doubt Southern lynch mobs, Dixiecrat politicians, segregationists, etc. were primarily people who subscribed to evolutionary thought << Once agin you take a one sentence statment from a one hour program. Sure Beck is over the top with his opinions, and statments. He is an entertainer. That's how he gets his audience. As I have said many times before I find him boring. I was watching the intellectually challenging program Swamp People, last night while he was on. I'm just asking you to tell me a statment he made about history that is a lie. Did he say that bigotry or racism did not exsist before Darwin? >> >> There are millions of people that disagree with Darwin. What does that have to do with this discussion. It's evident that he thinks that anybody that thinks we evolved from monkeys has some kind of racial implacations. << >> Really, it's "evident"? Sounds like your grasp of science is lacking. << Really Leo? It sounds to me like your grasp of this conversation is lacking. I was merely commenting on what I felt Beck was stating. Never having heard what he said or having time to investigate it, I have no evidence that he believes that way or not. It was only my interpertation of what I felt he might be saying. It in no way expresses any of my personal views on the theory of evolution or anything else for that matter. Please try to stay focussed on the discussion at hand, rather than attacking my academic creditials Leo. >> I'm not going to research it further for your sake. I guess you (or G. Beck) would argue that today's evolutionary biologists are all practicing racism, too? << I'm bginning to think those fumes from toilet bowl cleaners are starting to get to you Leo. I have never made any statment about my beliefs on evolution or even Becks statment about evolution. Only my opinion on what he might have been using as an outrageous example with this statment. I think evolutionary biologist are scientist studying an incomplete science at this time in our history. >> I'm not going to research it further for your sake. I guess you (or G. Beck) would argue that today's evolutionary biologists are all practicing racism, too? << It's certainly not for my sake Leo. You are the one making the accusations. I would think you would want to add a little crediability to those accusations. Would you like to be judged by one statment made in a one hour discussion? Please quit trying to guess what I might be thinking.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I just think the term "Myth" lends itself to the whole notion being an invention...when in fact, it wasn't, the laws at the time just WEREN'T equal. That's not good, of course, but in the end, it was a truth, if just a half truth. << Being a historian EE you must always judge history in the context of what was considered proper at the time. It's hard to believe that woment didn't gain the right to vote in this Country until 1920. As a matter of fact the first country to allow women to vote was Finland in 1906 (somebody correct me here if I'm wrong). As hard as it is to believe there are still countries in the world where women are not full citizens.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> My sister has been living in Coral Gables since the early '50s. Big changes. When I moved to this northern Mass town in '64 everyone was either Italian, French Canadian or Irish. Now it's half Hispanic or Asian. A great many into drugs or welfare. But I can't get my husband to leave. My kids couldn't wait to bail. << Be careful Bobbe. There are some who would call you a bigot or racist for speaking the truth.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>My sister has been living in Coral Gables since the early '50s. Big changes. <<< Same with my family.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>So you are advocating an isolationist position for the United States of America Leo?<<< that certainly wouldn't work, though it would be nice to distance ourselves from foreign oil, and from labor that is unjust. Like I said before...The Universe of Energy! The future tech of energy will help us in our social and legal plight.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>That's how the game is played EE.<<< It doesn't have to be. Unless everyone save for you now thinks I am a racist on this site, right? ;-) If there are logical people here, and people that read, and think (and if this were a real comversation- listen) people would logically see that I am not, and am trying to make a logical point. However, to a group of closed minded people, I suppose I have opened up my mouth, and they have made up their minds. I can't help that, nor will I help indulge another ones' ignorance and inability to see into the depths of another opinions. However, if you read and look (which I really hope the readers of this thread did...I rather like the lot of you. ) you'll see that it's not a bigoted argument all. As I;ve said before it deals in mostly respect and patriotism. "Facts are stubborn things"- John Adams.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>It seems to me the UN is headed in the same general direction as the League of Nations.<<< To be blunt...Would than not suck? LOL. for such a philosophically beautiful organization, there would have to be real change in it, and real trust in it for it to really live up to it's potential I am wont to agree with you, even if I do consider myself a optimist.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>You'll make a fine Constitutional Lawyer.<<< Thank you. Here's hoping. And working.
