Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Yeah...too bad that in Hong Kong "getting there" is actually the best part of the whole experience.<< Isn't that the same thing you are saying about the MK???
Originally Posted By SuperDry HKDL Tomorrowland is T-I-N-Y compared to the other ones. You can literally see everything there is by standing in one spot and turning around in place. There's absolutely no sense of exploration. And the theme would have been totally lost on me if it had not been explained to me. I hope that our actual future is a bit more imaginitive
Originally Posted By Mr X ***>>Yeah...too bad that in Hong Kong "getting there" is actually the best part of the whole experience.<< Isn't that the same thing you are saying about the MK???*** No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is "getting there" as for the MK in Florida is a wonderful and important part of the experience. The experience is still there. In Hong Kong, "getting there" is the ONLY experience. The rest is a complete letdown.
Originally Posted By Mr X **HKDL Tomorrowland is T-I-N-Y compared to the other ones. You can literally see everything there is by standing in one spot and turning around in place. There's absolutely no sense of exploration.** Would you agree that the exact same comment would apply to Fantasyland too? I think so, anyway. That leaves just one more land. Adventureland. And it is somewhat better (still...all in all I think it's the worst adventureland out of the five parks...BY FAR!).
Originally Posted By WorldDisney >>Yeah...too bad that in Hong Kong "getting there" is actually the best part of the whole experience.<< <<Isn't that the same thing you are saying about the MK???>> I think those are two totally differnt things. MK is STILL a full day park with lots to do. The entrance is just the icing on the cake. With HKDL, the entrance is practically half of it as much of the park itself leads you to be desired .
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<There's absolutely no sense of exploration.>> Exactly! There is just nothing there. It's litterally the attractions (all 4 of them ), 2 restaurants and maybe a store? I honestly can't remember. You can easily 'do' TL in 20 minutes without any lines. There is NOTHING there that keeps you there. Now, compare that to the OG DL in Anaheim when TL was in it's heyday. When I was a teenager, THIS was the land we stayed most of the day in. We had SM, ST, People Mover, Subs (heard a rumor they are coming back too), Cable Cars, Captain EO, Circle Vision movie, Autopia, boats, rockets and monorail. I mean, WOW!!! Hell, I think that's more attractions than all of HKDL . We use to spend about 3-4 hours in this section of the park alone (remeber, this is pre-fastpass ). Of course, add the shops and really, you could spend time in that section more than any other part of the park. TL was so freaking busy!! Now, it's lost of that glory, but it IS making a comeback in terms of attractions and I easily spend at least 1-2 hours when I'm taking my time. With TL HKDL, you can slow it down all you like, but you will be bored to tears once you done SM, Buzz and assuming the Autopia. There is nothing to keep you there, nothing to discover, once again a microcosm of the entire park unfortunately.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>HKDL Tomorrowland is T-I-N-Y compared to the other ones. You can literally see everything there is by standing in one spot and turning around in place. There's absolutely no sense of exploration.<< To each his own. I feel the same way about the Mk's TL. A total mess with no direction or cohesive theme.. At least HKDL does have a cohesive look and feel to it.
Originally Posted By Mr X That's easy when there's a tiny location to work with. PLUS, are you really happy with "cohesive" cartoonland? Doesn't seem like "tomorrow" to me, but then again I think the whole park sucks...so I must be stupid right?
Originally Posted By Mr X Hey WD...does autopia appeal to you in any of the OTHER tomorrowlands? Just curious. (mostly cause I think people are making excuses why this one is "okay"...but it's TOTALLY NOT!)
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>PLUS, are you really happy with "cohesive" cartoonland?<< Yes, I am am because I understand the aim of this particular land and I do not have the same hangups that most of you seem to have in regards to concept of Tomorrowland, which has been flawed since Walt introduced it back in 1955. I think they had finally got it right in Paris, with the Jules Verne's backstory and cohesive theming, but now, even that is trashed with the addition of Buzz and Lion King in that area. Reason why the theming in HKDL is right now the most cohesive, and reason why I have no problem with it. Even the addition of Autopia fit perfectly into this retro sci-fi storyline.. >>Doesn't seem like "tomorrow" to me, but then again I think the whole park sucks...so I must be stupid right?<< I don't think you are stupid, but severely unfair to HKDL's attributes. I have a hard time finding common ground with your (and WD's) opinion because I don't think you spend enough time there to really take in the small details and theming, and also because I reckon both of you already went into the park with negative feelings about before hand. But that's only my take on it... or maybe since I do spend way too mcuh time at all the Disney parks (MK last night for example), everything from the bad to the good is way clear on my mind... yet again, I let you off easily since you have been basking in the glory of TDR for the past several years, so I can understand why criticism comes easily, as it does for me.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I have a hard time finding common ground with your (and WD's) opinion because I don't think you spend enough time there to really take in the small details and themingI have a hard time finding common ground with your (and WD's) opinion because I don't think you spend enough time there to really take in the small details and theming >>> In my opinion, the small details and theming have to come after providing a quality initial experience, not in replacement of it. I don't think it's any secret that attendance and word of mouth about HKDL are suffering. Disney is never going to convince the mainland China market that they need to spend more time at HKDL to appreciate it if their initial experience is bad.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< **HKDL Tomorrowland is T-I-N-Y compared to the other ones. You can literally see everything there is by standing in one spot and turning around in place. There's absolutely no sense of exploration.** Would you agree that the exact same comment would apply to Fantasyland too? >>> Perhaps, but since I grew up with the original DL, I kind of expect Fantasyland to be like that. When I think of Fantasyland, what always comes to mind is the backside of the castle: 4 dark rides, Dumbo, and teacups. Also, I think that Fantasyland is much less lacking for wont of things to just explore, at least as compared to Adventureland, Frontierland, or Tomorrowland - those lands seem to naturally cry out for things to explore.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Perhaps, but since I grew up with the original DL, I kind of expect Fantasyland to be like that. When I think of Fantasyland, what always comes to mind is the backside of the castle: 4 dark rides, Dumbo, and teacups." Yeah, but then you face the other direction and see Storybookland, Casey Jr. (the Skyway when it was there), It's a Small world (the old Motorboat Cruise), and then go around the corner and hit Alice in Wonderland and the Matterhorn! I don't think you can really apply that "turn around and see everything" to Fantasyland.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Hey WD...does autopia appeal to you in any of the OTHER tomorrowlands?>> No. But, if I have to choose one to ride, DLR is obviously the best one with the updates at least. HKDL, I would get on it if I was there, but wouldn't care either way. The Autopia has been the present about 40 years now....really Disney!!
Originally Posted By Mr X >>I have a hard time finding common ground with your (and WD's) opinion because I don't think you spend enough time there to really take in the small details and theming<< Well, you certainly had no problem offering a negative review of WDSP after only one visit, right? Besides, why would I spend a ton of time at a place I really don't care for that much? I say again, I visited the park and did almost everything...I found it to be too small and too generic. >>I reckon both of you already went into the park with negative feelings about before hand<< This part is definitely not true at all. Going to the park in the morning I was very excited in fact. The buildup (train, big HKDL sign, fountain, everything outside the entrances) was great and I got even more excited. It was only in going through the lands did my disappointment set in. And NOT because of the lack of attractions even (heck, I already KNEW that much!). Just the fact that Fantasyland and Tomorrowland were so small and generic, with noplace to really "explore". Very different from the other Magic Kingdoms. And if I spent 5 days in the park, I'm pretty sure that my feelings would remain the same. Almost the polar opposite of the way I feel at DisneySea (where every corner offers new secrets and stuff to discover). And as far as negative vibes are concerned, if anything I was trying to be EXTRA positive because when I visited DCA I DID have a negative feeling about the place, and it turned out that I enjoyed it quite a bit (flaws and all). So, I definitely went to HKDL with an open mind.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Well, you certainly had no problem offering a negative review of WDSP after only one visit, right?<< Of course not because not only was WDSP short on rides like HKDL currently is... WDSP did not offer an ambiance or hardly any theming. I think you know how our mutual friend dennis-in-ct felt when he came back. I would have been hard on HKDL as well if the theming was below par or at the very least...lesser than the other DL parks.. but it isn't, and THAT is the difference I see between WDSP and HKDL. As opposed to WDSP, there is an "ambiance" in most areas of HKDL, and like I have said before.. the shows and rides are most definitely Disney quality, reason why saying this park "sucks" is quite an overstatement. But I have agreed with you many times... it does need to grow desperately, a couple more E-ticket rides and other complimentary attractions; and improve in some areas (like food venues).. but other than that, I don't see what's so terrible about it to say it "sucks". >>In my opinion, the small details and theming have to come after providing a quality initial experience, not in replacement of it.<< Agreed, but remember that even TDS suffered the same criticism from many guests who felt the park was eye-candy and not much else to make it a truly great park. >>The Autopia has been the present about 40 years now....really Disney!! << That is the reason why the TL concept has shifted to the sci-fi Buck Rogers-like spaceport that if HKDL's TL. Honestly, how can you improve Autopia and make it look futuristic? ..and trust me, the HKDL is quite whimsical and fun... 2nd best after DL's.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>I would have been hard on HKDL as well if the theming was below par or at the very least...lesser than the other DL parks.. but it isn't<< Respectfully, I disagree. Main Street is fine...carbon copy of Anaheim but it serves its purpose. Fantasyland and Tomorrowland, cheap, small, and cartoony. Of course, the lack of attractions or even stuff to see that would require walking a few steps is glaring. Not at all "up to par" with ANY of the other Magic Kingdoms imo. Adventureland, somewhat better as I said. But that's IT. The park screams out for more, and with no Frontierland or New Orleans square to enhance the DIFFERENCES between the lands, it just seems like one cartoony sub-par version of the other magic kingdoms. Granted, it IS nicer looking than WDSP obviously, but is that really saying a lot? Add to that... No mansion. No pirates. No splash. No thunder. Not a single unique attraction. And only 1 (lame) dark ride. Sorry, but I don't think "sucks" is an overstatement at all. It was obviously "built on the cheap" just like DCA and WDSP before it, and again Disney can't seem to learn their lesson and then scratch their heads when attendance is, of course, abyssmal.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Again... I do NOT disagree with most points you bring up above. The only thing I disagree about is the quality of the theming... which is better than the MK in my humble opinion. You continue to fail in presenting your case to me, which is... why do you feel the theme is substandard when all I read from you is criticism about the park's lack of attractions and it's size??? That is totally apart from theming. Granted... DLP, DL, DAK and all of TDR does theming better, but how does the lack of attractions and park size is affecting the quality of the theming within the park??? THAT is what I am having a hard time understanding, since I feel both aspects of the park are totally unrelated and can be criticized on it's own merits. Also... what makes Fantasyland "cartoonish" to you? Because, mind you... I thought the Disney characters were supposed to be the main staple of Fantasyland, so as such.. Fantasyland should be cartoonish.. much more than any other land! So that statement also fails to click with me. I can understand about making Tomorrowland "cartoonish" but why do you think that is so un-Fantasyland??? You also have to understand that Disney here is shoving characters down Chinese throats... as they claim the chinese are totally unfamiliar with Disney's product and movie productions.. so maybe, HKDL has an emphasis on "cartoonish" aspects due to that fact??? Yet, I strongly believe, no DL park is exempt from being cartoonish in one way or another.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, I prefer the idea of Fantasyland being a magical sort of "bavarian village" concept like it is in Anaheim. So to me, the "cartoonish" aspect is more subtle. In many respects, the Hong Kong version reminded me more of toontown than the "traditional" fantasyland. So, for me, the theming failed there. Even worse, it's the same in tomorrowland. So as for theming, honestly you've got TWO lands (almost half the park!) that are very similar and dead WRONG as far as the original "theme" (the spirit of it, anyway). Not only that, but they are both small enough that you can stand in one place and take the whole, cartoonish thing in. IMO, failure of theme is evident there. As for Main Street, of course it is fine. And Adventureland is somewhat better as I'm always saying. But still not "up to par". Missing are some of the more "reality based" lands such as Frontier and Liberty/NOS...and I wonder if a toontown in Hong Kong would even make SENSE with the cartoonish nature already present in half the park. So, there you have it. I see the theming as yet another failure in an otherwise pathetic park. Did that explaination make any more sense? I don't really think I could explain it any more fully, that's pretty much the extent of my thoughts. For HKDL to start "working" in my view, it'll take more than a couple of e-tickets. The whole PARK needs to be more fleshed out and full of a LOT more variety as all the other Magic Kingdoms are. And I REALLY have to disagree on calling it better themed than the Magic Kingdom. The Magic Kingdom has a far better realized Tomorrowland, for one thing. All the "traditional" attractions are there, plus some originals. Liberty Square AND Critter Country both blow away anything in Hong Kong and Liberty Square is also a nice UNIQUE touch (what's unique in Hong Kong, really?). In all aspects of theme, the Magic Kingdom is fully realized even with its recent neglect (I'll take your word for it), as are the other 3. Hong Kong just isn't.
Originally Posted By Mr X "All the "traditional" attractions are there, plus some originals." In case this was not clear, I was referring to the WHOLE park with this statement, not "just" Tomorrowland. EDIT FEATURE!!
