Originally Posted By Mr X One more thing... I think a BIG part of the problem is the missing Frontierland. In many peoples' eyes, THAT is the quintesential "Disneyland" image, as all that old west stuff Disney did on TV was totally brought to life. Not only that, it's probably the most "American" part of the park. To leave it out was truly tragic imo. I hope they rectify that. Once they do (and it would have to be a MASSIVE project and one that I assume isn't even being considered), along with some sort of New Orleans square (or, gasp...something NEW but similar enough), I believe THEN HKDL will be on it's way to being comparable. And frankly, that would only take a COUPLE of important e-tickets to accomplish (mansion and thunder) along with a LOT of very different kinds of themes to really compliment the cartoon side of the park. When they finish all THAT, I'd be more than happy to book several days at the Hong Kong Disneyland resort.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Of course not because not only was WDSP short on rides like HKDL currently is... WDSP did not offer an ambiance or hardly any theming. I think you know how our mutual friend dennis-in-ct felt when he came back. I would have been hard on HKDL as well if the theming was below par or at the very least...lesser than the other DL parks.. but it isn't, and THAT is the difference I see between WDSP and HKDL. As opposed to WDSP, there is an "ambiance" in most areas of HKDL, and like I have said before.. the shows and rides are most definitely Disney quality, reason why saying this park "sucks" is quite an overstatement. But I have agreed with you many times... it does need to grow desperately, a couple more E-ticket rides and other complimentary attractions; and improve in some areas (like food venues).. but other than that, I don't see what's so terrible about it to say it "sucks".>> I read all of this and have to wonder why it's so hard to see that a lack of attractions, not enough to do, copy carbon theming, nothing original and the small scope of the park is what CAN make this park suck?? I said this SO many times, it's the TOTAL package!!!! Yeah, themeing is nice, but lacks everything else, that's a problem in my book. I don't know why I bother to write these 10 page messages explaining as eloquently and detailed as I can over and over again why me AND so many OTHERS feel about this park and not ONLY because it lacks attractions, but yes, that's a BIG reason too. It's suppose to have RIDES in it!! I mean, that's a big park of the Disney experience, right? If you are someone who is RICH like you who visits a different Disney theme park every month on different ends of the earth, sure, you can appreciate the gardens and the a castle show a little more, walk around and take some pictures and feel satisfied at the end of the day. But a Chinese person from the mainland who makes on average $40 a MONTH, then they expect to go to a place that has attractions and a full day experience for the money they are paying might feel differently. They aren't going to say "I spent a lot of time and money to get here, now bored after 3 hours and felt like it wasn't worth the price of admission, but man the theming is AMAZING!!!!" Only us Disney freaks looks at it that way, not average people...and they shouldn't. Also, it's weird how it's so puzzling to you our thoughts on this park and sorry, but you TRASH WDW!!! I just read some of the messages from you on that board lately (as you know, I'm RARELY in that section) and I honestly lol reading it. You go on about the people, the transportaion, the UPKEEP, MK issues and etc. Man you go on and on how WDW has turned into the worst place on the planet behind Iraq but other peopele respectfully disagree with many of your opinions on the place, but you have NO problem putting them in their place on it . Some don't see the problems you do, some do, but the reality is MK is the #1 theme park in the world in SPITE of those percieved problems you have of the place. So that tells me the issues YOU see with that park doesn't bother the majority of guests as they still go year after year after year. Now, here we are talking about HKDL with it's own separate issues that have been pointed out with this park before opening and the potential problems they might cause (No one showing up is problem #1 ). These aren't issues in a vacum and you obviously know that. You can get pass the issues of the park and have a great time, good for you...I can't. I tried and I just can't just like YOU can't pass all the issues at WDW (but still go five times a month regardless ;D) while others seem not to have as much of a problem with your issues. They go regardless, right? On top of that, they keep WDW the #1 resort in the world while HKDL is struggling harder than finding a place to put Submarine Voyage in their tomorrowland. Obviously, the PEOPLE have spoken on that park as it's so dead now. I put up a post asking about the 'crowds' at HKDL for Golden Week and since you were the only one responeded which tells me the place was deader than a grave site in China's most buisiest holiday period of the year. Why are they not showing up? The 'marketing'? LOL, we all know the truth and what the average Chinese is telling Disney. The place sucks . And BTW, it's NOT just me and Mr. X with this opinion lol (maybe we are just most vocal?). SuperDry shares it, as do the Witches and others here as well. You go to other Disney boards and people are all saying the same thing, 'too smalll', 'no rides', 'nothing original', 'not worth the trip' and to be completely blunt on this, if people got free or discounted flights like some, maybe they would take a chance on it and wouldn't mind going to a park that honestly takes 4 hours to see, but we all don't get that oppurtunity, do we? So, again, you have to look at it from all perspectives and why people feel so differently about this park. If I wasn't just a few hours a way now, it's no way I would've bothered myself. They fact I am only a few hours a way, reasonable airfare and that the place happens to be in one of my favorite cities on the planet is what got me to go in the first place. You take away ANY one of those three, would never have bothered.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>HKDL is struggling harder than finding a place to put Submarine Voyage in their tomorrowland<< If they bulldoze down those mountains in the back they'd have plenty of room for expansion. They're such an eyesore for castle pics too...
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I think a BIG part of the problem is the missing Frontierland. In many peoples' eyes, THAT is the quintesential "Disneyland" image, as all that old west stuff Disney did on TV was totally brought to life.>> Well, it's funny, to sort of tie in the debate between you and TDLFAN, but what Mr. X said was true. He WAS excited when we boarded the HKDL train, saw the entrance and Main Street. He was ready to begin his day with excitment and glee. But slowly (or 20 minutes later ) as we begin walking the park, his dissappointment was obvious, but you know what it was when I realized the park lost him? We were in line waiting for JC and he asked me a simple question. "Where is Frontierland?" My heart almost skipped lol, he really didn't know there wasn't a FL. I was surprised. When I told him there wasn't one (not a ride, or a show mind you, an ENTIRE LAND!!!!!) THAT'S when the bitterness began to set in . It was almost like telling a little boy there was no Santa Claus...except the little boy is slightly drunk while you are telling him. Trust me, Mr. X tried to get into it just like **I** tried to get into it and was more into it then he was, but I knew practically everything that was there before entering and he didn't and it's proof of what the casual Disney fan expects to have out of their day and how dissappointing it was in some regards when they see so many elements we just take for granted in the other parks were missing. And one more thing TDLFAN, I said this in a thread a loooong time ago, but me and Mr. X DIDN'T share the exact same view on the park!! We argued about it when we were in Hong Kong. Hell, we argued about it for 2 more days lol. I discussd the merits of the park, pushed for what I liked about it and have SAID if you never been to a Disney park before, it's a good 'starter' park. If you been to one already, please God don't bother. Mr. X even accused me of kowtowing to the company (and YELLED it in a public area if I remember correctly ). Although we both knew the park certainly had it's flaws and both weren't all that pleased with it, we STILL saw it on different levels and it was mainly because ironically, all the good stuff in the park, the shows and the hotels, he missed and I drew up my experience as a little more higher because of that, but STILL below the mark...very low in fact. But just telling Mr. X I liked the park had him thinking I was now a Disney spy lol and I wasn't saying that at all. I'm only pointing this out because I think some people here think Mr. X and myself share the same brain and believe me we don't . Yes, we agree on a lot of things, but not EVERYTHING, especially with HKDL. I actually didn't become more negative of the place UNTIL I went back to America and saw Disneyland again and realized, WOW, HKDL really does suck!!! Hell, I even made a thread about it here. That's when my observations started to get closer to Mr. X's. Ironically, the same thing happened of my view with DCA BEFORE TDS was opened. Before TDS, "Ah, it's fun for what it is and a nice little distraction, but nothing more I guess." After visting TDS, "%#@#&!! That's best they could do with that crappy park??? Those %$#&!!!!!!!!!" You get the idea .
Originally Posted By Mr X **except the little boy is slightly drunk while you are telling him.** Well, hung over at least. But hey, it was HONG KONG! Besides, who was the one who couldn't get his ass out of bed for our "big day in the park"? Not ME, Mr. Lazy. >>He WAS excited when we boarded the HKDL train, saw the entrance and Main Street. He was ready to begin his day with excitment and glee.<< Totally true. And I still love the SETTING of the place, and the set-up (that cool train is ALMOST as neat as the WDW monorail! and in a cool "urban" way, appropriate to HK). And, I didn't go in "blind" either. I totally KNEW there were very few attractions. That wasn't the part that really bugged me (although, all in all, like WD said it IS an important part of the experience OBVIOUSLY!). >>We were in line waiting for JC and he asked me a simple question. "Where is Frontierland?" My heart almost skipped lol, he really didn't know there wasn't a FL.<< Either I was being sarcastic or I just totally forgot. I did know about the park before going, including reading about all TWELVE attractions. If I wasn't just being sarcastic, it must have just slipped my mind (well who WOULDN'T expect a Frontierland at Disneyland right??). >>Mr. X even accused me of kowtowing to the company (and YELLED it in a public area if I remember correctly ).<< You deserved it.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>And I REALLY have to disagree on calling it better themed than the Magic Kingdom. The Magic Kingdom has a far better realized Tomorrowland, for one thing. All the "traditional" attractions are there, plus some originals. Liberty Square AND Critter Country both blow away anything in Hong Kong and Liberty Square is also a nice UNIQUE touch (what's unique in Hong Kong, really?).<< We don't have a Critter Country at the MK. That would be TDL and DL. And yes, we'll have to disagree about the MK versus HKDL theming... as your take is more on size than actual quality of theming. Besides... the MK's Fantasyland is as bland as HKDL can be, but I will take the nicer Fantasia Gardens, nicely paved and bricked walkways, and nicer Philharmagic building at HKDL over the horrible Pooh playground, cracked walkways and stained walkways and carnival tent front of the philharmagic show at the MK. Even the tent style facades at HKDL for Pooh and Royal Baunquet hall are more colorful than those similar features at the MK *and* TDL. And even TDL's Fantasyland is an improvement over the MK's with gardens and more 3D facades..as you know.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>(Mr. X) really didn't know there wasn't a FL. I was surprised.<< You know.. for someone who has been connected to Disney like he has, the lack of knowledge on things as basic as that, really put me off. WE have known the shortcomings of HKDL for the longest time before the park opened. We knew what to expect, and I expected little, reason why I was not disappointed by my experience there, and furthermore was pleasantly surprised they did not cut back further on the theming, which I was expecting to be far less inferior. >>I read all of this and have to wonder why it's so hard to see that a lack of attractions, not enough to do, copy carbon theming, nothing original and the small scope of the park is what CAN make this park suck?? << Please don't play dumb here... as I have agreed with you and Mr. X many times the lack of attractions and not enough to do is really a problem here and needs to be rectified. Small scope of the park doesn't bother me either because I am used to DL's size, and I wouold like to believe that HKDL will grow to be bigger later on... But to say.. "nothing original".. well that's not fair. Even the puny Tomorrowland area is totally original in look, JC has a different ending... and execution, the lack of a "Frontierland" can be concidered a original element of HKDL... etc etc. You, Mr. X and I agree that HKDL is way undercooked and far from being the park it should have been.. but my point has always been that what is there now is quality. It's not enought to make the park better or a least, somewhat acceptable, but what they did was good enough to be found at any of the other DL parks in the World. I *get* satisfaction from what is there...and some of the things they have at HKDL, I wish they implemented at the other parks. God knows the MK could benefit from some of the theming and ride elements founds at HKDL, and so coould some areas of TDL as well. Now...that^^^ is not to imply that I am totally satisfied with HKDL because I am not, for the same reasons you stated above WD. >>I already killed that (theming) theory.<< No you have not. That is only your opinion and your opinions and mine are not made of theories but perceived notions. I still disagree with you on your opinions of the theming at HKDL. >>If they bulldoze down those mountains in the back they'd have plenty of room for expansion. They're such an eyesore for castle pics too...<< You see? These are the types of comments that put your credibility iin peril... It's bad enough they copied the original castle from DL for HKDL, but to take away what makes this park different and unique, such as the scenery that surrounds it... would be tragic. I happen to enjoy and appreciate those differences that make up the parks around the World. Without those mountains.. we may as well be in Anaheim, looking down Main Street as if looked back in the 1950s.. Likewise, having a totally different castle at DLP, makes that park unique and an important place to visit. Reason why I have always felt TDL got the shaft for having the same castle the MK got, and so did HKDL again. The mountain range is an integral part of the atmosphere and show of that park as a whole... they frame Adventureland like no other park has, and they play an important part in setting HKDL's Main Street and Castle view into it's own plateau and feel. Mr. X, maybe you didn't know the actual vern of HKDL is much ample than what the train tracks cover... which means.. HKDL does have the space already to grow a good 40% more (or maybe more than that) in the future, without ever touching those lovely mountains to the west and north side of the park. Now if only Disney put up the money for expansion since the HK Goverment seems to have thrown the towel already.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>We don't have a Critter Country at the MK. That would be TDL and DL.<< My bad. I thought there was a seperately named "land" around Splash where you walk under the train bridge. Guess not. >>as your take is more on size than actual quality of theming<< No, it's not. Not at all. I guess you didn't bother reading all that I wrote about my issues with the theming. >>You know.. for someone who has been connected to Disney like he has, the lack of knowledge on things as basic as that, really put me off.<< First of all, like I said it either slipped my mind or I was being sarcastic. But even if not, why they HECK would that "really put you off"? What would be wrong with going to the park "spoiler free" (which I didn't)? Do you have to analyze every facet of the place before setting foot there to be considered a "fan". Do you have to have seen every square inch of any Disney park 10 times over before you are considered "expert" enough to offer an opinion? Give me a break, TDLFAN. That's ridiculous.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>the lack of a "Frontierland" can be concidered a original element of HKDL<< I can't believe this. You are seriously saying that the LACK of something makes it original? Well heck, then HKDL is THE most original Magic Kingdom ever...since it LACKS so many standard "Disneyland" experiences. *rolls eyes* (oh, and you were stretching even before that anyway. just because the jungle cruise is DIFFERENT doesn't make it somehow "all original". Just plussed, like a lot of Paris is)
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< the lack of a "Frontierland" can be concidered a original element of HKDL >>> When you look at it from that perspective, there are all sorts of original elements of HKDL: - Only MK without real steam trains - Only MK without a second gate next door - Only MK without an integrated shopping district - Only MK without HM/PM - Only MK without BTMRR - Only MK without POTC - Only MK without paddlewheeler - Only MK that doesn't provide a full-day experience - Only MK that doesn't sell multi-day tickets With all of that originality that HKDL has, I wonder why it's not successful?
Originally Posted By Mr X >>If they bulldoze down those mountains in the back they'd have plenty of room for expansion. They're such an eyesore for castle pics too... You see? These are the types of comments that put your credibility iin peril<< Gimme a break, bro. IT WAS A JOKE.
Originally Posted By Mr X **You know.. for someone who has been connected to Disney like he has, the lack of knowledge on things as basic as that, really put me off.** **These are the types of comments that put your credibility iin peril...** How bout we lay off the personal stuff? Just because I DARE to have an opinion different from the great and powerful TDLFAN doesn't give you the right to imply there is something wrong with ME, and therefore my opinions. I'm simply commenting about my views, and my thoughts are other peoples views. I'm not slamming anyone personally for the way they feel. You are, and it's not very cool.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN I publicly offer you Mr. X my apologies if my comments about your opinions (not yourself as a human being) were taken on a personal level. That is not what I wanted to do or where I wanted to go. But I guess we both are equally strong about our points of views and that I can't help. However... I really have tried hard to see your point of view on the theming (and yes, I did read all of the stuff you wrote... TWICE!) in hopes to find some commonality but I still do not understand why the severe criticism on this particular issue, concidering I have agreed with you on most everything else. But whatever.. I am not going to continue beating on that poor horse. Like I said before... I was genuinely shocked you didn't know some things about HKDL before your visit. I guess I was wrong, and it's true that it won't make you any less a fan than anyone else. It only shows you have a life and I don't. Again, I apologize if my comment was offensive, but as I said before... I was truly shocked you didn't know there was no Frontierland and can see why you are so put off by the park. BTW... when I said "the lack of Frontierland may be concidered an original aspect of the park.." I too was JOKING. I guess you didn't get it, just like I didn't get the "Bulldoze the Mountains" joke you implied. Lucky for me, SuperDry did get it and that is why I love his response about that up above, and agree with him as well. Again... many apologies for all the pain and sorrow I have caused you Mr. X, and others in regards to my opinions or how I have stated them. I am not going to pursue this topic anymore as I find it to be unworthy of defending anymore. I just will continue to enjoy the park for what little it has to offer and hope that the future will bring bigger and better things for that property.
Originally Posted By Mr X No pain and sorrow here, I appreciate your apology. I think it's fine to have differing opinions, I was just a little put off that you seemed to think something was "wrong" with mine for whatever reasons. Anyway, different strokes. You like the park, I wish there was something more. It's all good. >>the lack of Frontierland may be concidered an original aspect of the park.." I too was JOKING<< Nope, didn't realize that. Sorry I misunderstood (I guess the reason being that there ARE some people (gushers) who actually DO make comments like that in a serious manner). As for bulldozing the mountains, I'm not even sure you CAN do that...so I figured it was pretty obvious as a joke. Misunderstandings happen. For the record, I LOVE the mountains and think that castle backdrop is probably the nicest thing about the park in fact! Very different from Anaheim, which is cool, and the pics come out great.
Originally Posted By Mr X About the whole "not knowing about the missing Frontierland", the more I think about it I really remember what I was thinking and why WorldDisney was confused about my comment. I KNEW all about the park (including what was and wasn't present), being the typical research geek like everyone else online, but I think it was just at that moment that I really REALIZED that Frontierland, the whole THING, was missing. And realizing THAT made me realize just how incomplete HKDL really was (compared to say, a missing Haunted Mansion or a missing Tiki Room or whatever). So anyway, that's where my thoughts were on THAT issue. Does anyone know if they ARE looking at making a whole other land at some point? If so, which one? Or are they really just going to stick with what they've got?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney >>the lack of a "Frontierland" can be concidered a original element of HKDL<< LOL dude, I promise to respond to the rest later, but I saw this and shook my head. Do you love the park THIS much, you are willing to spin in the absurd. You sound like other people around here. 'Original' element, that's a new one. You know what WOULD'VE been original? If they actually built some original new land in it's PLACE!! Now, that wouldn't have been so bad. Just to completely omit a land that has been with the original from the BEGINNING is just a way to save money and build the blandest MK ever built. BTW Disney, make up your minds, are you trying to get the original flavor of the Anaheim park or not?? On one end you talk out your mouth that by building Main Street and the ori(CHEAPEST)ginal Castle, you're somehow honoring this place. But then you leave out some of the most esential things that makes DL DISNEYLAND by no FL, Splash, NOS, POTC, HM, Snow White and the list goes on and on. And seriuosly, that list really DO go on and on and on and on. At least IASW will finally get there....I can feel the people eagarly awaiting for it's arrival now. I bet there will be a stampede too when it opens.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>LOL dude, I promise to respond to the rest later, but I saw this and shook my head. Do you love the park THIS much, you are willing to spin in the absurd.<< Obviously, you failed to see the joke of that statement too.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Yeah, I did. AFTER I posted . Sorry. To be fair though, it just didn't SOUND like a joke, so I think that's why we all responded the way we did. Once again, sorry though.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I'm not slamming anyone personally for the way they feel.>> You know, that's a great point and I never understand why people get so offended when you offer up a negative review. I have never, *never* said anyone is stupid, moronic, have bad taste and etc because they like a theme park I don't like. All the years I wasted dissing DCA, I always said, it's just how **I*** feel, but if you like it, more power to you! The same thing can be said with HKDL. It's just MY personal opinion of the park (shared by MANY, but mine nevertheless ). But, people seem to be offended sometimes and I never understand why?? Besides the fact a theme park DOESN'T show emotions, I have NEVER made a personal attack on ANYONE based on their appreciation of something they like (mainly because I openly like many things people considered bad taste or just stupid, ironically from most people I know, it would be my love for Disney theme parks lol). I have never tried to make someone feel like they are less worthy human beings just because they enjoy DCA lol. The only thing I have said and in regards to this park as well: I glad you like it, I just want to feel the same as you do and feel I got just a great experience for the money paid and time spent seeing it...but I don't and THAT'S the issue here.
