Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Disney spent a lot of time raising Mickey to the status of being, and ICON. He's no longer a Movie Star. After Mr. Disney passed away the Disney corporation no longer had it's real Icon. Disney does a lot of things besides cartoons. They are a very diversifiesd corporation. However when you think of Disney you think of Mickey Mouse. You just can't get away from that fact.>> Right, which is ironic because Mickey doesn't have a ride anywhere to be seen. Mickey is such an underused and abused character by the recent 15 years of the company.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<attractions like Mystic Manor should be the norm and not the exception.>> Exactly! As I said earlier, rides like Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, and Big Thunder are staples of the Disney name, and the fact they play it safe by using a cartoon rather than creating a new masterpiece that can stand the test of time is a shame.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The issue is that for those of us that want the parks to be all that they can be and for WDP&R to be the innovation leader in its field the company needs to back that up. Picking safe choices like Cars Land isn't enough.>> No. As some Spirits have said for a very long time, playing it safe in the entertainment business will eventually put you out of it ... may take a long time, brand degradation always does ... <<I'm actually the opposite of what was suggested earlier - if an existing attraction is dying on its feet (read: The Living Seas) then I have no issue with a character makeover.>> I agree ... to a point. There were competing options for Seas (one with Mermaid's characters too, one much more scientific ... you probably know more about this than I do) ... and they went with the cheap version. I suppose it's better than shuttering the place like Brad Rex wanted. <<I just want to see something new and fresh in the parks - attractions like Mystic Manor should be the norm and not the exception.>> Ah ... but we keep hearing Mystic Manor is having its budget chopped like a Friday the 13th slasher film ... if Disney cheapens out on this, after announcing it, that speaks volumes about what direction the company really is heading in P&R.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> You're twisting my words around, Mpierce. Where did I say they didn't want the characters? << Sound bites, and snippets is what I use. It works for the news media. >> Right. But I doubt they want to be bashed over the head with a character at every ride. If they did, Epcot would have closed along time ago and Tokyo Disney Sea would have fallen flat on its face. Neither have character attractions as tentpoles. And even then, neither do the MK or DL for that matter. << Unlike many here I just don't get that feeling at WDW. Other than perhaps MK, and I feel the abundance of characters is appropriate there. The character appearances at the other 3 parks seem less intrusive to me. Then again it might have something to do with the time of year that I go to the parks.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Unlike many here I just don't get that feeling at WDW. Other than perhaps MK, and I feel the abundance of characters is appropriate there.>> MK is fine to a point. But the fact that Tomorrowland has become Fantasyland East, and classic attractions such as the Tiki Room and Pirates have become characterized is very, very distasteful, IMO. That being said I don't want these rides to be the same forever, but characters are the cheap way out, IMO. <<The character appearances at the other 3 parks seem less intrusive to me. Then again it might have something to do with the time of year that I go to the parks.>> They're less intrusive as of now, but with Pixar place to grow like crabgrass, and things like Nemo and Gran Fiesta(even though I personally like them) are fairly out of place in Epcot. Thank god DAK has stayed clean, though I fear for whatever comes next.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Sound bites, and snippets is what I use. It works for the news media. >> Very true, but I don't want LP to become MSNBFOX.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> The issue is that for those of us that want the parks to be all that they can be and for WDP&R to be the innovation leader in its field the company needs to back that up. Picking safe choices like Cars Land isn't enough. << But is Carsland really just a safe choice or perhaps the chice that best fits the expansion project for DCA? As some Spirits have said for a very long time, playing it safe in the entertainment business will eventually put you out of it ... may take a long time, brand degradation always does ... With a budget in excess of 1 billion dollars, I would hardly call that playing it safe.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 ">> I HATE NASCAR and most rednecks << What are you into Croquet, and Sunday afternoon teas with a bunch of snobs that have reproductions of works by Andy Warhol hanging on the wall?" Yes. Because if you have no affinity for base "entertainment" or base people, you MUST be the kind of person you describe. There is nothing else on the spectrum. Rolls eyes
Originally Posted By MPierce >> They're less intrusive as of now, but with Pixar place to grow like crabgrass, and things like Nemo and Gran Fiesta(even though I personally like them) are fairly out of place in Epcot. Thank god DAK has stayed clean, though I fear for whatever comes next. << Definitely agree with Grand Fiesta Tour. I hate it, and feel it has detracted from the feel, and character of the Mexican Pavilion. Epcot should be left to the established meet n' greet area it has in Innoventions West. I would not be opposed to sending the Routemaster bus out loaded with characters to draw folks into that area. I never really noticed a change in the Studios with PP. Only that they have a hit with TSMM, and the themeing is outstanding in the area.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I never really noticed a change in the Studios with PP. Only that they have a hit with TSMM, and the themeing is outstanding in the area.>> Pixar Place is fine, but the fact that it will basically be half the park in the near future is kind of ridiculous, IMO.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Because if you have no affinity for base "entertainment" or base people, you MUST be the kind of person you describe. There is nothing else on the spectrum. << But aren't rednecks, and race cars just as much base as the next person or event? Do you wear a white sweater, and white shorts while playing Croquet? Really Rolls Eyes
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Pixar Place is fine, but the fact that it will basically be half the park in the near future is kind of ridiculous, IMO. << I think sub dividing the park might infuse some additional life into a hodge-podge of activity. It needs to be done within reason though.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper See, I have a ridiculous armchair imagineering idea for the park to be split, but that'll never happen haha.
Originally Posted By Manfried <<Horizons get to be so popular?>> Horizons popular? Not for very long. It never had a line because it was so late sixties....
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<The issue is that for those of us that want the parks to be all that they can be and for WDP&R to be the innovation leader in its field the company needs to back that up. Picking safe choices like Cars Land isn't enough.>> I'm interested on your take regarding Rafferty's Route 66 district. You mentioned a hybrid of sorts, between his design and the current Carsland pushed by Lasseter. Do you have any conceptual info about how Imagineering could have possibly merged the two, any possible directions they were entertaining before Lasseter killed it? Personally, I would love to have seen a district dedicated to California car culture a la Route 66, and not just a Radiator Springs replica. RSR and its outdoor track could have fit nicely into a Route 66 environment without tailoring all 100% of it to Pixar's Cars. They should have kept the overall theme more generic with just a touch of Pixar for Disney-fication and merch sales. Going all in with Cars, IMHO, is a costly mistake that park guests will grow tired of more quickly than something more central to California car culture as a whole. I fear that this one will be a huge waste of capital for Phase I.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Ah ... but we keep hearing Mystic Manor is having its budget chopped like a Friday the 13th slasher film ... if Disney cheapens out on this, after announcing it, that speaks volumes about what direction the company really is heading in P&R.<<<< Hopefully it's not in a way that would take away it's detail and originality. I am not overly worried, but not optimistic, either.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Do you wear a white sweater, and white shorts while playing Croquet?<<< Pastels! You need to add some pastels.
Originally Posted By Manfried skinnerbox says: <<Going all in with Cars, IMHO, is a costly mistake that park guests will grow tired of more quickly than something more central to California car culture as a whole. I fear that this one will be a huge waste of capital for Phase I.>> Blanket statements like this are meaningless until we see the finished result. Now if it is not fun, then you might be right. Frankly, though, I think the attractions will be lots of fun. Because of his success, John Lasseter deserves the the baton that is leading some of the creative efforts at the theme parks. While Rafferty has done some good things, he also has done some that have not been as good. Or is this just success envy?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Because of his success, John Lasseter deserves the the baton that is leading some of the creative efforts at the theme parks. While Rafferty has done some good things, he also has done some that have not been as good. Or is this just success envy?>> Manfried has laid the trap, and I'm just stupid enough from heat exhaustion to take the bait. =8^0 So Lasseter deserves carte blanche budget for Carsland because of his success? While Rafferty doesn't deserve consideration for his Route 66 because he's done some things that have not been as good? Seriously? First off, Lasseter the Animation Director has not always been as successful as his contemporaries like Stanton, Docter, Bird, and Unkrich. As directors go, Lasseter isn't a failure, but he ain't the best that Emeryville has to offer. As the Principle Creative Advisor at WDI, Lasseter's decisions haven't always been homeruns, either. He was mostly responsible for pushing Nemo Subs' budget into the stratosphere, well north of $150 mil. It's a mediocre effort at best. For the kind of money spent on refurbishment of the subs, Disney could have done MUCH better than rehashing the Finding Nemo plot via video screens underwater. Monsters Inc Laugh Floor is another mediocre attraction, which was supposedly "saved" by Lasseter and his team at Pixar. It violates the overarching TL theme more than interactive Buzz, even more than America Sings did. It should have never been given the green light. But Lasseter, that darling ultimate fanboi of the Disney theme parks and Walt's creative legacy, approved its creation and TL placement, anyway. And speaking of success... everyone raves about Toy Story Midway Mania. Who was it again that created this attraction at WDI? OH YEAH... Kevin Rafferty! One of the most successful additions to DCA and DHS and it's Rafferty's baby. Yeah... Kevin just isn't as successful in theme park creations as John is, so let's shove him off to the sidelines and give John free rein to do what he wants with the California car culture. Even if Radiator Springs wasn't actually based in California. 8^P
