Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Who hasn't seen the movie? And I like Lasseter plenty. Had a great conversation with him on day when he stopped by the Jungle. Great guy, and has an unrivaled talent for animation and storytelling(Cars aside).
Originally Posted By leemac <<Lasseter sticks to his guns for Cars Land and he gets lambasted for it. Why? Because he's not one of the celebrity Imagineers like Rafferty or the others.>> Don't agree with you there Manfried. Disney fans have complained long and hard in recent years about the "toonification" of the parks - CarsLand is yet another example. Granted Radiator Springs Racers isn't **quite** a book report of the movie but it touches many of the same points. CarsLand could have been so different - really steeped in the car culture of California and the history of Route 66. Lasseter wanted Radiator Springs to look exactly like it did in the movie - hence the version we have today. It has nothing to do with "celebrity imagineers" - and Kev is the most unassuming and modest imagineer I've ever know. I know his original pitches for that expansion and I also know what I would have preferred.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I'm sure you can't, but I'd love to hear more about that proposal, leemac.
Originally Posted By MousDad >>Disney fans have complained long and hard in recent years about the "toonification" of the parks - CarsLand is yet another example.<< Hmmm. Unless you take the POV that when fanbois complain about toonification of the parks, it's usually for "forcing" toons to preexisting attractions that were original park creations (Nemo, TLF, SGE, Tiki, etc.), and not so much for attractions that are original creations based on and successfully re-creating toon environments (TSMM, SM, TTBaB, etc.). In which case, one could argue that something as immersive, ambitious and faithfully re-created as Cars Land is the correct way to toonify the parks.
Originally Posted By Britain Yes, toonification is a problem that is more acute in some places rather than others. In Epcot, it's disgraceful. In AK, the park is so new and still so non-tooned up, I don't see how I could take any offense at a Nemo show. I don't like seeing Tomorrowland lose it's way, but Carsland isn't replacing anything sacred. It's brand NEW! While I don't doubt there would have been a way to have a 'real life' Route 66 land on the outside and RSR (cartoon cars) on the inside of the ride, I'm telling you I'm more interested in standing in the middle of the intersection, and seeing Luigi's, Ramone's, Lizzy's and Flo's all around me. Seeing a movie brought to life is more interesting to me (and to my kids) than seeing a recreation of 'real' route 66. It would be a little like having some sort of NASA exhibit and once you get on the ride, it's Star Tours. Well, yes, NASA is cool, and Star Wars is cool, but couldn't I get to stroll around an X-Wing or an At-at while I'm in line? Those things only existed as celluloid (or as models) before. Here's a chance to make them real. I suppose this will bring us back to the long debate about Disneyland's mission to bring history to life in addition to fantasy. I love when Disney does history well (You can't beat American Adventure) but in general, I'm going to Disneyland to escape from reality.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I am heartened to see I am not alone in hating the pushing of character tie ins. But look at it since Iger came on board: DCA - World of Color (all tied to the films) - Funwheel put in a huge Mickeymouse head that was not needed - Toy Story Midway Mania - Orange Stinger changed to a Silly Symphony theme - Mulhalland Madness themed to Goofy's Sky School - California Dreams ripped out for Ariel - Monsters Inc replacing SUperstar Limo - Fliks Fun Faire - Carsland - Turtle Talk Only new things without tie ins were ToT (planned during Eisner's reign) and the new entrance DL - Toon themed shows - Sleeping Beauty Walk Through re do - Gt Moments with Mr Lincoln (not toon themed) - Finding Nemo Submarine voyage - Characters in It's a Small World - Johnny Depp in PotC - Star Tours 2 - Pirates overlay of Tom Sawyer Island Disneyland Hotel - ripping out the falls and Lost Bar and putting in Monorail waterslides - self referrencial WDW MK - All the new Fantasyland redo it toon based - Stitch Encounter - Monsters Inc Laugh Floor - Johnny Depp in PotC Epcot - Donald and the 3 Cabrilleros put in the Mexico pavillion - Turtle Talk - Finding Nemo invades the Living Seas - Capt Eo - O Canada redo DHS - Toystory Midway Mania - Block Party - American Idol - Star Tours v2 DAK - Expedition Everest (planned in Eisner's reign) - Yak and Yeti Hotels - Nemo and PotC overlay of the Caribbean Beach resort - Toons introduced to the Luau (early show only thank goodness) - Proposed Haunted Mansion overlay to Port Orleans Riverside - Closing Pleasure Island - More DVC - Bay LAke Tower, Kidani Village, Saratoga Springs Tree Houses - New horrid Animation theme to what was the Legendary Years of Pop Century (I hate Pop and the All Stars Anyway - tacky rubbish Disney would not have built in Walt's day). DLP - Closing of the shows - The celebrations on the hub (all toon based) with a toon train - Buzz - Capt Eo WDSP - Stitch Live - Crush Coaster - Cars - Toy Story Playland - ToT (approved during Eisner's reign) Resort - Mickey and Friends in Buffalo Bills - best themed shop gives way to Starbucks - Most of the good table service converted to buffets (same consultant who started ruining WDW dining and the cruise industry) - Earl of Sandwich - World of Disney Store Tokyo DL - Monsters Inc Hide and Seek - Philharmagic - Johnny Depp in PotC TDS - Turtle Talk - Toystory Midway Mania - Sinbad turned into a musical with a cutesy tiger - Fantasmic - Duffy Bear HKDL - Toons in IASW - Grizzly Gultch - Mystic Point with Mystic Manor and the Explorer's Club - Toy Story Playland Other projects: Aulani in Ko Olina Hawaii - looks cool Shanghai - no real details yet (look after Oct 4, 2010) Rumours of Marvel Park in Paris I think we can see a trend, and it is a worrisome one. Hence perhaps my passionate slating of TSPL. Look at it in the whole. When DL opened in 1955, there were very few characters at all, and as a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's, they were a very small part of the Disney experience. Now people focus on them and I think it is killing the parks. Which is more unique - a barbershop quartet or a spotty teenager dressed up as Mickey Mouse?
Originally Posted By Manfried Well maybe if they had come up with the Route 66 idea 15 years ago, designed and built it for DCA, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think, though, WDI has been the tail wagging the dog on a lot of stuff for some time. Eisner didn't help either. Now that it's all about branding, I don't see it changing any time soon. EPCOT was designed and built without the toons. In fact the original walkaround characters were not Disney cartoon characters. Well that lasted just a few months and then the company couldn't get the characters into the park fast enough. And guests responded. So, they see that is what the guests (customers) want and that is what they give them. With the amount of money being spent on DCA's expansion, I can't blame them for trying to capitalize on something they perceive as successful. And like it or not, "Cars" was successful and still is. The merchandising is still selling and a sequel is coming. So, like any big business they look for ways to leverage their investment to try and maximize their return. Want to go build a theme park with a generic Route 66 land and rides? Go ahead and try. I guarantee you no one will invest in it.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^Yet people flocked to Disneyland and the MK when they first opened, and not nearly every ride was character based, nor are the enduring classics from that age.
Originally Posted By Britain Yes, because 'themed environments' weren't in every strip mall in America at the time. It's quite amusing to watch people in the 1950's get a thrill over things like "Look, it's an old Town Hall! And an old-fashioned movie theater!" Today these themed 'amenities' are taken for granted. What makes mainstream Americans come to Disney today are the branded attractions. What makes mainstream Americans have a long-term affinity for Disney is a high-quality experience. They've dropped the ball on the latter during the past 20 years, but they are savvy to stick to the former.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<What makes mainstream Americans come to Disney today are the branded attractions.>> Right, which is why Expedition Everest, Test Track, and Soarin' gave their parks so much of a boost.
Originally Posted By Britain Marketing, my friend. Pour millions into educating the public about a new non-branded attraction and if it looks like it's high-quality it might work. Or it might not coughmissionspacecough. (Still hasn't been enough to halt WDW's eroding margins/hotel occupancy, though, has it? And personally, those attractions haven't haven't been enough to get me to go to FL since '04 -but Potter+StarTours2 might do the trick.) But you get so much more for your advertising buck if you were to say 'Tron something something' or 'Monsters Inc something something' No need to educate the fragmented public about something new. Give them something they already love, only now, made real.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Right, so the easy route they've been taking the past 10 years. Good idea.
Originally Posted By Britain The easy route would be to do branded crap. (Which they've done for the past 15 years, more or less) The smart route would be to do branded excellence, which it looks like they are finally doing (fingers crossed).
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper The smart route is too have a happy medium between original ideas and toons. I'm not saying there should be no rides based off the toons, but it seems like every single ride that comes to an American park has to bee toonified.
Originally Posted By Britain Of course (but remember, not toonified. Branded. Don't forget Capt. Jack Sparrow or Tron) And one person's happy medium is sacrilege for someone else. I'll throw this out there. Pick your preference: A) a Tron attraction in Tomorrowland B) a Tron attraction in EPCOT C) a Tron attraction in DHS D) an attraction in EPCOT about the invention and history of computers ending with a thrill simulation of what it's like to be in a computer (completely void of any Tron references) Go ahead, pick D. It makes no business sense, but pick it. Or pick C if you want to be a 'it's based on a movie' stickler, even though both MK and EPCOT need more investment than DHS. But watch, if Disney goes ahead and picks either A or B, the boards light up with torches and pitchforks.
Originally Posted By Britain And it looks like Buena Vista Street is pretty toon-free, so we've got a good happy medium going.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Oh, I'd pick A. And I'm not just saying that to be contrarian. MK needs all the attractions it can get that aren't geared towards the 5 year old crowd. But that being said, EPCOT shouldn't have characters. I can live with them if they come, but in my opinion EPCOT and DAK should strive to have the least amount of characters possible. I guess my grief comes from the fact that not only is everything branded, but it's also for 5 year olds in writing and execution. And don't get me started on the new PotC...
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Also, just back to post #135, obviously there are some original attractions that don't make good business sense, but to say there are none that do is a mistake.
Originally Posted By Britain Well I can agree with you there. I haven't seen any sophistication or subtlety since... the Asian tiger walkthru area at AK? I forgot the name.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I HATE NASCAR and most rednecks << What are you into Croquet, and Sunday afternoon teas with a bunch of snobs that have reproductions of works by Andy Warhol hanging on the wall? >> But I LOVED Cars. I know part of it ... a huge part of it ... is the road trip/Route 66 nostalgia and being old enough to recall a time when we couldn't drive I-95 straight down to FLA on my earliest visits to WDW and the state ... how vast stretches hadn't been completed and we'd have to drive on old US 301 (kinda like the east coast version of US 66) ... so much has been lost in our zest to get places quicker ... no one stops along the way anymore << Did your Dad have to get out, and hand crank the car when he wanted to start it also? >> But the film is also a lot of fun ... the characters are enjoyable from Doc to Lightning to Mater to Sally (Bonnie Hunt is great in anything!) << A lot of fun just like the ride will be. >> I don't get the hate on the film. << Autophobia! You just need to tweak the definition a bit to make it fit! >> Life is a highway, after all! << Get your Kicks on Route 66!
