Originally Posted By Britain And pointing out that Walt had problems raising money for Disneyland doesn't dispute the fact that he and his characters were icons by that time.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Uh, talk to Mr. Steven Spielburg who just last year reluctantly had to enter into a partnership with Disney because he couldn't raise money for the movies he's developing. Fame doesn't equal fortune. << But fame generates fortune when it is properly promoted. Yes Disney was in the cartoon business, and yes Disney started gaining recognition. I still contend that the Mouse did not become an icon until Disney combined his studio, and Disneyland, and TV. And then only years of promoting the Disney brand.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> And pointing out that Walt had problems raising money for Disneyland doesn't dispute the fact that he and his characters were icons by that time. << If they were so iconic why the problems raising money for his productions.
Originally Posted By MPierce I do not equate very wel lknown, and sucessful in the industry to iconic.
Originally Posted By Britain Lifting my jaw off the floor, I can only politely put on my hat and say 'good day' to you sir.
Originally Posted By MPierce Pick up your jaw, you could possibly step on your tongue, and good day to you sir.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And I am looking forward to Carsland, although I still yearn for a real Rte 66 type area paying homage to the California Car Culture ... something that SHOULD have been part of DCA 1.0.>> <<Although not part of DCA 1.0 Kevin Rafferty came up with an incredible Route 66 concept for DCA - it was probably the best pitch I've ever seen - and Lasseter killed it as he wanted Radiator Springs intact - he wasn't prepared to compromise on bringing the movie to life in DCA. It could have worked as a hybrid between the two worlds but Lasseter just wasn't interested.>> That's really a shame, Lee. Again, I always felt the mistakes and missteps with DCA 1.0 were incredibly obvious ... like not paying attention to the Car Culture of the state or the Gold Rush era ... or using a fast-food pizza joint to represent the whole surfing culture. But I'm sure we'll see Kevin's work in a future coffee table book! :-( <<A terrible shame but it is typical John - he can't see beyond his own product.>> That is sad, but predictable. It's the same reason why Disney is like a steam train with no brakes when it comes to One Disney and homogenization ... that's what Iger, Rasulo and Staggs have pushed for and they're not gonna admit it may not be the smartest route to travel. <<Count me as another Cars hater - I truly loathe the movie. It is the only Disney animated movie that I've only seen once - and I have no intention of watching it again. I just can't understand what there is to like about it. >> I think you lose something being one of those uppity Brits ... Dave is still one of us, so he can appreciate it!
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I think you lose something being one of those uppity Brits ... Dave is still one of us, so he can appreciate it! << He probably didn't like the design of the tyres on the characters!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>But that being said, EPCOT shouldn't have characters. I can live with them if they come, but in my opinion EPCOT and DAK should strive to have the least amount of characters possible.<<< Says the Nemo Lover. ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> I HATE NASCAR and most rednecks << <<What are you into Croquet, and Sunday afternoon teas with a bunch of snobs that have reproductions of works by Andy Warhol hanging on the wall?>> No, croquet is so yesterday ... I much prefer water polo ... and the horsies seem to enjoy the swimming too! And I like to hang out with elitists, not snobs ... snobs can be the most ignorant bumpkins, but they believe they are smart. Oh, and no one I know has Warhol (original or copy) on their walls. >> But I LOVED Cars. I know part of it ... a huge part of it ... is the road trip/Route 66 nostalgia and being old enough to recall a time when we couldn't drive I-95 straight down to FLA on my earliest visits to WDW and the state ... how vast stretches hadn't been completed and we'd have to drive on old US 301 (kinda like the east coast version of US 66) ... so much has been lost in our zest to get places quicker ... no one stops along the way anymore << <<Did your Dad have to get out, and hand crank the car when he wanted to start it also?>> No. We had Toyotas in those days ... they never stop ... even when you hit the brakes! >> But the film is also a lot of fun ... the characters are enjoyable from Doc to Lightning to Mater to Sally (Bonnie Hunt is great in anything!) << <<A lot of fun just like the ride will be.>> I really hope so. I just don't want a Cars-themed TT. And, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe fans do either. It has to raise the bar significantly. >> I don't get the hate on the film. << <<Autophobia! You just need to tweak the definition a bit to make it fit!>> I love to tweak ... >> Life is a highway, after all! << <<Get your Kicks on Route 66!>> Soon you won't even hear that in the DCA BGM entrance loop! \
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Says the Nemo Lover. ;-) << As much as I'm opposed to charactesr all over Epcot I still firmly believe that Nemo, and Crush gave a dying pavilion new life.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I really hope so. I just don't want a Cars-themed TT. And, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe fans do either. It has to raise the bar significantly. << I agree, and for the money that is being hinted at, I think you're going to see much more than that.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>As Manfried pointed out, the guest demand the toons, and the meet 'n greets. Disney is just giving the folks what they want.<<< I don;t think that's ALL they want...Original attractions are at the basis of Disney's parks. How the heck did things like PotC, HM, BTMR, SSE, Horizons get to be so popular? There needs to be a balance...Part of the fun of the theme park is seeing what can be made into an actual experience, not just a movie.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> Right, so the easy route they've been taking the past 10 years. Good idea. << <<Brand recognition is everything in a competitive market. Folks go to Disney to see things Disney. >> Yes, but somewhere in the mid-late 90s a very not-so-subtle switch was flicked as to what is 'Disney' ... out went immersive themed environments with no toon tie-ins (with exceptions) ... and it all became about toons, characters and franchises ... all LCD stuff ... character meals and autograph books, pins and vinyl, dumbed down parks and resorts where Hidden Mickeys on the carpet was more important than whether said carpet was clean, all dreams, wishes and MAGIC all the time. I had a good two decades from mid-70s to mid-90s of growing up on a Disney that didn't mean those things. And, worse, the quality of both the individual experiences and the sum total weren't higher quality. You didn't, for instance, get a wicked awesome Stitch attraction that replaced Alien Encounter ... you got Bleep, The Imagineers Created (in honor of the worst-reviewed and second most-hyped show of the new TV season debutting in three hours). If you're going to toon everything at least make the attractions great. They can't/won't even make many of them tolerable.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Live Free Or Die!>> I got this one, Alex. What is the state motto where Jim 'I'm Back in Disney's Good Graces' Hill resides?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>As Manfried pointed out, the guest demand the toons, and the meet 'n greets. Disney is just giving the folks what they want.<<< I don;t think that's ALL they want...Original attractions are at the basis of Disney's parks. How the heck did things like PotC, HM, BTMR, SSE, Horizons get to be so popular? There needs to be a balance...Part of the fun of the theme park is seeing what can be made into an actual experience, not just a movie.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> What is the state motto where Jim 'I'm Back in Disney's Good Graces' Hill resides? << You are good.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Yes, but somewhere in the mid-late 90s a very not-so-subtle switch was flicked as to what is 'Disney' ... out went immersive themed environments with no toon tie-ins (with exceptions) ... and it all became about toons, characters and franchises ... all LCD stuff ... character meals and autograph books, pins and vinyl, dumbed down parks and resorts where Hidden Mickeys on the carpet was more important than whether said carpet was clean, all dreams, wishes and MAGIC all the time. I had a good two decades from mid-70s to mid-90s of growing up on a Disney that didn't mean those things. And, worse, the quality of both the individual experiences and the sum total weren't higher quality. You didn't, for instance, get a wicked awesome Stitch attraction that replaced Alien Encounter ... you got Bleep, The Imagineers Created (in honor of the worst-reviewed and second most-hyped show of the new TV season debutting in three hours). << I didn't say I condoned it. Only now the image of the Mouse is driving the Park rather than the imagination of the imagineers. It wasn't that way before, because the real icon being created was the driving force behind the creation of the Mouse. >> If you're going to toon everything at least make the attractions great. << I think the toon aspect can definitely be carried to the extreme. The problem being is Disney was founded on toons, so naturally that's what people expect. Also people in discussion forums are sensitive to anything being toon related, and get worked up into a lather when an attraction is toon based. >> They can't/won't even make many of them tolerable. << I think they may have stumbled from the path that was laid down for them on a few occasions of late.
