Originally Posted By RockyMtnMinnie I understand you're on some sort of war path right now. If you'll read my post again I said I don't approve of attacking your professionlism and I'd appreciate once again that you chill on you're attacks on peoples political choices. A person's belief's are very personal and the fact that many people are very happy right now does not make them idiots for that.
Originally Posted By mstaft That rudeness works both ways in the political spectrum. When I posted on my personal blog that I was tired of the rudeness I'd seen from both sides of the spectrum, I received an even ruder response in return from a self-proclaimed "open-minded liberal". Hypocrisy is a human condition not one determined by political beliefs- justified or not.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey ^^^^^I never said anyone was an idiot. I said SOME people would give him carte blanche if they could. If political beliefs are so "personal," tell people to stop dancing in the halls and screaming at my school. Tell the people who were in Grant Park last night not to cry and scream on TV. Tell Spirit of 74 not to call a 10 YEAR OLD girl a "twit" because she believes differently than he (even though he can tell she's a racist just from the way she looks). Don't tell me that there aren't SOME people (and note, I didn't say YOU) that would happily hand all of the reigns over to Obama today because they think he's going to change the world singlehandedly. I work with some of them, my dear. I've seen some of them on these boards. If their politics are so "personal," why are they throwing their beliefs in my face and calling me a neo con for supporting McCain? I didn't attack people's political choices, I attacked the way SOME people for treating the man like he's the miracle cure for all of our ills. I have a real problem with that and Americans as a whole should have a problem with that. Barack Obama HIMSELF realizes he's not a miracle worker, he said so in his victory speech last night!
Originally Posted By avromark As a more non-involved in American Politics individual. I hope that the current President does speak with a message of optimism. In these darkening times I would like the spirit of HOP to live on. Remember every politician makes blunders (even the best ones), and remember you do have something to be happy of. You never had Chretien.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "although to be fair there may be language in the Patriot Act that took our right away" <<Not to turn this into a World Events thread, but that's simply not true, and you know it. I'm really glad that you're above spreading misinformation.>> I think it turned that way from the start. And while my comment was made in jest, I think the Patriot Act is very scary and HAS taken away many of our patriotic rights under the guise of catching 'evildoers' so long as they aren't in DC. The Prez got that thing snuck through with so many things that were never vetted by Congress because they were in a fear-based fervor ... they would have burned the Constitution to protect it is how I would put it. It's a very sick piece of legislation and one I hope the new Prez and Congress tosses out very soon.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Barboy, you wouldnt want to silence mistruths?/// It depends. If one slanders my name and causes me unjust economic or social damage or if one willfully endangers my life by falsely yelling bomb on a plane, yes.... I'd want them silenced. But if Nazis want to march down the street saying Obama is the Antichrist or Bush opponents hand out pamphlets saying he was secretly behind 911 then by all means let them speak their minds--- I don't give a rip.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Well, to be blunt I took her reaction to be one of racism. Could I be wrong? Yeah, but I don't think so. I'm a pretty good reader of people. < not so sure I'd make that leap -- I'd chalk it up more to the nasty politics being spread at home by parents with their children in earshot. My oldest daughter now teaches - and when she cam home today they had had a discussion on the election ( civics class)- and one little girl ( 2nd graders ) - told her that she was happy Obama won because " Stupid Palin was going to burn down the cities that voted for Obama " Now,you and I know 2nd graders don't make this type of comment unless they got it from the yokels at home. I am far from a Sarah Palin fan, and hope she retreats back to Alaska ....but this kind of crapola is spread by both sides of the political spectrum...I think it has far less to do with racism and far more to do with people just being - well stupid !
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<However, it's impossible for one man (or woman) to make a sweeping change of government in the US. The system of checks and balances was set up to keep one individual from gaining such power. To allow any one person to have such power would be akin to setting up a dictatorship.>> Have you been paying attention to what 'W' has been doing the past eight years?!??! Seriously, Nikki, you scare me. And all the others who apparently have no clue what has been taken from them in some misguided at best (flat out evil at worst) attempt to 'protect our freedoms.' Because George Bush has taken more power to the executive branch than any Prez in history. He has written his own laws. He has broken the Constitution (you do realize the government can come into your home, cart you away like Jews in Nazi Germany, detain you for as long as they like, subject you to torture and not give you your constitutional right to a lawyer, right?) He has bought Communism to Wall Street. He has watched over the LARGEST transfer of wealth in the history of our country. Did you just sleep through all of that? <<The way some of you have fallen in love with the man, however, I wouldn't be surprised if any of you were willing to toss out the Constitution and give him carte blanche.>> See the above. And if you don't believe me, do some research. Go visit the Ann Frank House in Amsterdam and walk through it ... go to the final room where they talk about the rise of Nazi-like governments and not having checks and balances ... and then watch them talk about the USA under Bush ... it runs chills down your spine ... and this isn't partisan rhetoric. It's fact. Scary, scary, scary.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "I think it turned that way from the start." Actually, the first dozen or so posts are quite civil and a lot less heated than your standard Churro or Popcorn debate. It really started to turn that way right about the time you showed up. Funny how that seems to work. "The Prez got that thing snuck through with so many things that were never vetted by Congress because they were in a fear-based fervor" I don't think he was trying to be sneaky, he was doing what everybody thought was the best thing to do at the time. Clearly, there was agreement on both sides as it passed with flying colors. I don't think anybody was prepared for 9/11 to happen, and I don't think there was much time for clever 'sneaking' to go on right after it. But of course, what do I know? I certainly wasn't around back then to follow it or the immense support from both sides that it had when it first passed. And now that we have officially hijacked this thread, I really must say that I'm not only upset that I won't get to see the show (will it ever happen? I hope so), but that we can't even have a discussion about the additions to it without turning to name calling. Does anybody know if they build all new AA's for the new Presidents, or just redress the old figures with a new face? It seems like it would have been a lot easier to just swap out Bush's face with Clinton's and chance the outfits, instead of taking a working AA and just letting it sit on stage and work as a mannequin. They might need to make some modifications for height and weight, but that still seems easier than building a whole new one. It's also kind of funny to think about the Presidents whose views and supporters are so different being the exact same bones.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<Of course you do realize, MPierce, that anyone who doesn't sing the praises of Obama without question is an idiot.>> Really? I didn't get that memo. < you get it when one signs into World Events....
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "Have you been paying attention to what 'W' has been doing the past eight years?!??!" Yes, I have. And have you been paying attention to how it's really Congress that's doing it. Sure, he supports things and goes against others, but he still needs to win over the folks that we elected to represent us, just like how he was able to win over folks to get elected to represent people in his own right. "...you do realize the government can come into your home, cart you away like Jews in Nazi Germany..." Do you realize that the moment anything even remotley close to this happens, it will be all over the news for days on end? It may be there, but I highly doubt it will ever get used. It's like the proverbial fruit cake that people get for Christmas (I've never actually gotten one). Yes, it's there, but nobody's expected to eat it. How many folks have you heard of getting taken out of their homes since the Act passed? "...and this isn't partisan rhetoric. It's fact." While it may be facts, I'm sure it's also very partisan. Europe in general (especially the Netherlands and Amsterdam) are way more liberal than the US, and will pretty much disapprove of anything conservative we do. Just like every good argument, I have no doubt that the folks at the Anne Frank House have managed to highlight certain facts and gloss over others to make their point more clear. Facts? Yes. Whole story? No. "you get it when one signs into World Events.... " Which is why I won't be back over there for a long time to come. I've enjoyed the discussion surrounding the election in the past couple weeks, but the moment Obama got his 270, things began to get sour over there again. Until people can manage a civil conversation, I'm done with that section, and this thread. (Though I would still like to know if they recycle the Presidential AA...)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Actually, the first dozen or so posts are quite civil and a lot less heated than your standard Churro or Popcorn debate. It really started to turn that way right about the time you showed up. Funny how that seems to work.>> Yep. I'm the evil one that brings disaster and disharmony to the happy little LP. God, doesn't that get old? "The Prez got that thing snuck through with so many things that were never vetted by Congress because they were in a fear-based fervor" <<I don't think he was trying to be sneaky, he was doing what everybody thought was the best thing to do at the time.>> I disagree. <<Clearly, there was agreement on both sides as it passed with flying colors. I don't think anybody was prepared for 9/11 to happen, and I don't think there was much time for clever 'sneaking' to go on right after it. But of course, what do I know? I certainly wasn't around back then to follow it or the immense support from both sides that it had when it first passed.>> I am not letting Congress off the hook either. Our Constitutional right should be protected at all costs. That's the rock ... the foundation upon which this amazing country stands upon. I don't care if crazy wackjobs fly planes into buildings and kill thousands. You don't throw out the Constitution. You don't give up your freedoms to protect them. Bush AND Congress were dead wrong and they let down all Americans, even if they aren't smart enough to realize it. <<And now that we have officially hijacked this thread, I really must say that I'm not only upset that I won't get to see the show (will it ever happen? I hope so), but that we can't even have a discussion about the additions to it without turning to name calling.>> I haven't called anyone a name. And I'm so used to people calling me names that I'm not sure I'd even notice anymore. <<Does anybody know if they build all new AA's for the new Presidents, or just redress the old figures with a new face? >> They are all new. They ADD Presidents. They don't take them away. <<It seems like it would have been a lot easier to just swap out Bush's face with Clinton's and chance the outfits, instead of taking a working AA and just letting it sit on stage and work as a mannequin. They might need to make some modifications for height and weight, but that still seems easier than building a whole new one. It's also kind of funny to think about the Presidents whose views and supporters are so different being the exact same bones.>> No comment.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<you get it when one signs into World Events.... >> So that's where you've been hiding out of late instead of engaging in DISNEY discussions, old tiara wearing Cubbies fan?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "They are all new. They ADD Presidents. They don't take them away." I know, but don't most of them just sort of sit in the back with limited motions? It seems like it would be easier to build a new one with limited motions and make that the outgoing President, and keep the one AA that has a lot of movements as the one that moves a lot. I've never seen the show, so I'm not entirely sure how it works, but from what I've gathered, most of them don't need terribly sophisticated hardware, and I know Disney is always looking for ways to save a penny or two.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Yes, I have. And have you been paying attention to how it's really Congress that's doing it. Sure, he supports things and goes against others, but he still needs to win over the folks that we elected to represent us, just like how he was able to win over folks to get elected to represent people in his own right.>> Bush has acted on his own plenty. He has overridden Congress and acted under Presidential discretion (whatever the hell that is). Congress didn't allow him to break habeus corpus. He simply (like a monarch) decided he was going to do it. "...you do realize the government can come into your home, cart you away like Jews in Nazi Germany..." <<Do you realize that the moment anything even remotley close to this happens, it will be all over the news for days on end?>> BS. Plain and simple. As someone in the media let me tell you a dirty little secret: the media reports what it wants to report and decides the news. People have been taken away ... you do know we have an 'enemy combatants' camp 90 miles south of FLA in Cuba, right? I have no idea who is there and neither do you. Neither does our media. And Bush and Cheney have no intention of telling anyone who is there and why they are there. I got some news for you -- that's not the American way. That's not what we're about. We're better than that. That's what rogue nations do. Not the USA. Again, that's not being partisan ... that's being American. <<It may be there, but I highly doubt it will ever get used. It's like the proverbial fruit cake that people get for Christmas (I've never actually gotten one). Yes, it's there, but nobody's expected to eat it. How many folks have you heard of getting taken out of their homes since the Act passed?>> Yeah. And you do know that's how it started in Nazi Germany too. And you get the same ignorant responses here when the government wiretaps or listens to your phone calls or otherwise invades your privacy ... the 'I don't have anything to hide, so long as it makes us safer.' Guess what? We all have stuff to hide. More importantly we all have a right to keep government out of our lives (that used to be a basic tenet of the Republican Party until Bush turned it upside down) I shouldn't have to have people read my email, give me a strip search at the airport and go over my banking records to keep me safe ... I'd rather not live in a free country if that's what freedom has come to. "...and this isn't partisan rhetoric. It's fact." <<While it may be facts, I'm sure it's also very partisan. Europe in general (especially the Netherlands and Amsterdam) are way more liberal than the US, and will pretty much disapprove of anything conservative we do. Just like every good argument, I have no doubt that the folks at the Anne Frank House have managed to highlight certain facts and gloss over others to make their point more clear. Facts? Yes. Whole story? No.>> The facts are just that. They are presented just like that. You no longer have any right in this country to a lawyer or against unlawful search and seizure ... that's exactly how the Nazis began their extermination of the Jews ... and gays and gypsies and others in the Holocaust. Yeah, it hurts to hear us mentioned in the same breath. But it IS the truth. That's something that needs to be changed immediately. I don't care if it means letting out 500 Death to American terrorists in Cuba. We must have our basic Constitutional freedoms. "you get it when one signs into World Events.... " <<Which is why I won't be back over there for a long time to come. I've enjoyed the discussion surrounding the election in the past couple weeks, but the moment Obama got his 270, things began to get sour over there again. Until people can manage a civil conversation, I'm done with that section, and this thread. (Though I would still like to know if they recycle the Presidential AA...)>> They don't. They are all different. They are based on height, weight ... heck, even FDR has a legbrace just like the one he wore. They are very detailed and very accurate and not interchangable. (although if the attraction had been built today WDI likely would!)
Originally Posted By barboy ///Because George Bush has taken more power to the executive branch than any Prez in history/// Close......two others wielded more executive power: Lincoln and FDR--- perhaps Jefferson too.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 re post 13: I agree, it should be removed. Last time I checked, Obama is an American, not a Kenyan. I don't see the point in referancing his heritage, since he is mixed anyways, unless one has biased feelings for his background. If he had said, "It will be fun to boo the Jew" it would be taken as raciscm... so I don't see how it isn't the same thing. It was just troll bait anyways. - Anatole
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo hmmm, a few thoughts, though not much to add than sadly I agree pretty muh with what Spirit has written and have often drawn many comparisons between Hitler and Bush. While Bush has not gone as far as Hitler, there were a lot of simularities. Maybe that is why so many (except for some LPers are so happy. Also, question, do you have to have different personality traits for different parts of life. I would have thought reading people's musings on Disney boards over the years would be a reasonable indicator of one' personality. Also why is it ok to lash out when asked a question, and claim one is unknown and then turn around and make judgement calls about someone thinking Obama is the 2nd coming? Seems like a set of double standards to me.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Back on topi, Ferret, the thing that makes HoP so cool (and a must see unlike Space Mountain or Big Thunder) is it is so detailed. It feels like all the presidents are there, with their own quirks. It is an attraction that doesn't really on characters or cheap tricks. To me, HoP is one of the few reasons I step foot in the Tragic Kingdom, it is a Disney calibre attraction. Let's put the Walt back in Disney.
