Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It's an ok day, but I am catching up on Disney news after a few weeks offline and reading about bone headed decisions left, right and centre in the world of Disney.
Originally Posted By barboy ///the exposure to the outside as part of the building disappear,/// ///whatever had happened had ripped off part of the front of the building where the elevator shafts would be exposed to the outside of the building../// very good points you two
Originally Posted By Anatole69 If we are going to talk about realism, I have never ridden an elevator with a steel cage on the top that required its passengers to sit down and get strapped in. Most elevator don't descend fast enough to require safety straps. I have been on the worlds fastest elevator even, in Taipei, and didn't have safety straps for that on either. If you are going to buy that, then catching a little view of the park at the top of the ride shouldn't be a problem either. lol. - Anatole
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I see viewing the theme park as much less out-of-theme than starting DL's POTC in the bayou and just randomly finding a waterfall (has anyone ever seen a bayou with a waterfall? I think not) that takes you to the Caribbean. Talk about not believable! I see the view as acting like the real Hollywood, and what we might actually see from the top of the hotel. The 'pretty' buildings are the leftovers of old Hollywood, and all the ugly backstage buildings are modern Hollywood. All things considered, I think it's actually one of the more believable plot holes in any attraction out there. Now let's think about why the outside of the Haunted Mansion doesn't match the house that we exit from the attic into the graveyard...
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt ^^^if you look at the satelite picture, you are not really in the House at all
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost You mean this one? Tell me Disney doesn't do a great job of "hiding" things. <a href="http://members.tripod.com/~GLBsCoasterZone/haunted.html" target="_blank">http://members.tripod.com/~GLB...ted.html</a>
Originally Posted By barboy ///starting DL's POTC in the bayou/// The Caribbean Sea is more regional in nature and has few definite, distinct boundaries. The historical pirate players in that region have been largely English, Spanish, West Africans(through forced migration of course) Aboriginal tribes and naturally the French with a sprinkling of Dutch. The bayous, populated with aboriginal, African(who escaped slavery)and French pirates, with those mangroves count thus, POTC's motif is intact. ///(has anyone ever seen a bayou with a waterfall? I think not)/// We've got some work to do. First, that waterfall is not supposed to represent a traditional one. It is a merely a transport to the watery caverns commonly found in the Caribbean region. That foreboding talking skull should tip you off that you are leaving the peaceful bayous and entering something very intimidating and mysterious.
Originally Posted By barboy ////If we are going to talk about realism, I have never ridden an elevator with a steel cage on the top that required its passengers to sit down and get strapped in. Most elevator don't descend fast enough to require safety straps./// After that post above I can safely say that you missed my point entirely. My point isn't really about realism; it's about story telling, context and credibility. All attraction elements and details should be consistent with the story or theme: at the Animal Kingdom I don't want to see sea turtles or kangaroos(**real life reptiles and marsupials**) in the Pangani Forest trail with gorillas(**real life primates**) since that would disrupt the attraction's theme.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 I don't get how safety harnesses or a mesh cage at the top fit in with storytelling or theme. It's an obvious bit of ride mechanics that has nothing to do with a real elevator and is only there as a safety feature of the ride, and so breaks the theme no matter how you dress it. It should not be there no matter what, and so is totally incredible to the location of the story. So perhaps it is different in kind from your example, but it is not different in type. - Anatole
Originally Posted By danyoung I just have to say that threads like this amaze and amuse me. I think people sometimes tend to overthink things. Ride a ride too many times and something is sure to bother you. The simple fact is that you're up at the top of the building, and opening the doors to show the outside is a simple and effective way to impress upon the riders just how high up they are. That only makes the drop that much more fantastic. You are transported to different realms WITHIN the hotel. That doesn't mean that everything OUTSIDE the hotel has to be in some other dimension. There's plenty of logic to support the open doors as part of a coherent story, but the simple fact is that they give the rider a little goose of a thrill before the elevator starts its drop. For me it's a great part of the ride, even though I haven't ridden since they started yo-yo-ing you up and down. Hey, the one big drop was more than enough for me!
Originally Posted By kennect You have to keep in mind that this is a service or feight elevator....They are very very different than a typical elevator...The caging idea is not off base at all....
Originally Posted By avromark Although to have that many service elevators in one small skinny tower...
Originally Posted By barboy Actually, dany I agree with a lot of what you're saying: ///people sometimes tend to overthink things/// I'm guilty as charged---I can't help it; it's how I was built ///Ride a ride too many times and something is sure to bother you./// but for me even back in '97 on my very first ride I felt something was amiss. ///opening the doors to show the outside is a simple and effective way to impress upon the riders just how high up they are. That only makes the drop that much more fantastic./// I agree with that fully........ but with it comes a price, a heavy price to me since even though I love a thrill I love context even more. ///You are transported to different realms WITHIN the hotel/// Now that part I don't know, I just don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I'm leaning towards calling it undefined---that is we don't know where we are. Are we in the hotel still or are we in some vacuous undefined space outside of our natural world and on another plane. But I do see how you would or another could interpret that we're still in the hotel. ///That doesn't mean that everything OUTSIDE the hotel has to be in some other dimension. /// Correct, if one holds that we're still in the hotel then that would make sense.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Thanks for your original post, barboy. From the very first time I rode TOT in DCA, I've lamented that what is a Very Good attraction (because of the four criteria you ticked off at the beginning of your post) could so easily have been made a Fantastic! attraction with just a little more effort. Story-telling is definitely the Achilles Heel of the attraction, the reason the ride doesn't achieve greatness. Why is the Hotel located in the middle of a theme park? Once we exit the Library, are we in the present or the past? Why does the elevator have seat belts? All of these nagging reminders that "it's just a ride" could have been resolved with tighter story-telling. Heck, even *I* have made up a scenario that addresses each of those. So surely the Imagineers could have, too. As for your original point... I very much like it that the elevator door opens to the exterior. For me, it adds visual perspective that you could not achieve in a totally enclosed shaft. Fear of heights is a common phobia, and having that door snap open 20 stories up (or whatever) is a great way to capitalize on that fear. And I think the sight of a modern-day theme park below could easily be handled by a decent story-line. MY problem with the doors opening to the exterior is that it IS treated as a weenie. The door's opening to the exterior should be a jaw-dropping, fear-inducing surprise to first-time riders -- not something that they know is going to happen and have witnessed repeatedly while waiting for the ride. They should have the elevators facing the back of the Tower, invisible to pedestrians. Let theme park guests walking around below hear the TOT riders' screams and wonder where they're coming from -- and why.
Originally Posted By kennect Inspector...Your idea sounds great but the ride is in fact inside a theme park...Remember people come into the park before they ever encounter the ride....Isn't that what theme parks are about? You experience things that you just don't find walking down an ordinary street? It would be great fun to not to know the real thrill waiting in store for you...But I get the idea when you see those doors open standing outside is that is part of the allure...But like everything else with repeated visits, etc. it does become mundane after a time...
Originally Posted By kennect Barboy, Have to ask you this....If those elevators have to open and you had your choice what the view was...What would your choice be? Just curious...
Originally Posted By barboy ///If those elevators have to open and you had your choice what the view was../// Well, I really like how the doors open and we see the hotel guests disappear and that brick wall scene was just sickening, one huge mind%^*)%^$--- those are great Disney moments already! Now if the doors were to open to the 'outside world' dig this: expose the guests to a forced perspective "outside" that is dark, rainy and ominous--just like on the night that those unlucky guests and their bellhop experienced back in 1939 or was it '37? This 'outside' environment must run perpendicular(vertical) with the the out of control service elevator...yep, all 13 stories high. Thus, we could still fully appreciate the speed and height of this ride and have some sick views along the way. Nothing like exciting the mind and the body at the same time, right?
Originally Posted By leobloom >>The bayous, populated with aboriginal, African(who escaped slavery)and French pirates, with those mangroves count thus, POTC's motif is intact.>> I'm not sure I even understand what barboy is trying to say here. But there aren't any mangroves in Louisana bayous (if that's his point). Barboy, if you want to really exercise your intellectual capacity, go read some Derrida or Foucault. Because you're wasting your energy micro-analyzing theme park rides.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Inspector...Your idea sounds great but the ride is in fact inside a theme park...Remember people come into the park before they ever encounter the ride....Isn't that what theme parks are about? You experience things that you just don't find walking down an ordinary street? It would be great fun to not to know the real thrill waiting in store for you...But I get the idea when you see those doors open standing outside is that is part of the allure...>> Hmmmmmmm. So you think exposing the climax of the attraction to potential riders -- and thereby ruining its surprise -- adds to its allure. I disagree. [But I still love you.] Tower Of Terror doesn't need to sell itself by exposing screaming riders. Its reputation precedes it. By the time tourists get to WDW, they've heard of TOT. And if they haven't, the literature they receive once there hypes it sufficiently. I'd liken it to the Haunted Mansion. In Liberty Square, potential riders see NOTHING to indicate what's going to happen inside the HM. They see only a small, well-kempt, vague creepy building. And yet they flock to the attraction. WDW hasn't installed video screens all over the Magic Kingdom that continually show footage of Madame Leota's Seance and hitch-hiking ghosts in order to promote the Mansion. Similarly, they don't need to expose guests to screaming Tower riders in order to promote that attraction.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Because you're wasting your energy micro-analyzing theme park rides.>> Uhhhh... He IS making his post on the WDW section of a Disney fan-site. To me, it seems like a pretty appropriate place to offer an opinion about a WDW attraction. But maybe I misunderstand you. Maybe you don't think it's legitimate to apply a critical eye to something as fluffy as a theme park ride. In which case I wonder why you're posting here.
