Originally Posted By dshyates I don't see why it wouldn't work. It is beautifully themed highly immersive environment. It looks to have lots of fun and very unique things to do like bobsleds, ice rivers for skating, a giant snow cavern, ice tunnels to ski through, a waterpark-like tubing park. On a hundred degree day where would you rather be. Trudging around on the concrete at Six Flags or throwing snowball and chasing the kids on skates on an ice river.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << It is beautifully themed highly immersive environment. >> That exists only in a CGI publicity video produced by real estate developers. Again, report back when this is all done to let us know how it all turns out.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I doubt that it will do well at all. There are hardly any trails from what I can tell. While a small resort like this might work for locals in a mountainous region (I can think of several in the southern Appalachains that are about the same size that do fine), I don't think it will be nearly enough to support the enormous cost of building it. I hardly claim to be a great skier (I'm probably about average, maybe a little above depending on which area of the country we're talking about), but I've skied about 3,000 vertical feet in less than 15 minutes on several occasions, after long tiring days of skiing. Needless to say, the actual trail I took was much longer than that because snow can't really hold past about 45 degrees, and I wouldn't go down something that seep that fast. The actual trail length was probably around 6000 feet (assuming a 30 degree slope which is still probably cutting the trail short). The Bearfire site claims that it will have over a mile of slopes. While it will take longer to access them because the hill itself is so short (a 250 ft vertical is nothing), it would hardly be enough to keep me there for a full day. Given all the stuff they are building around it, they seem to expect people to stay for several days and spend a lot of money. I just don't see the people who have the money to spend in a place like this choosing to do so when there are so many natural sites that will have much much more value for the time and money spent.
Originally Posted By dshyates Its not a full blown ski mountain. Its a massive terrain park. Its not about vertical feet. Its about short skis and ice tunnels. "I can think of several in the southern Appalachains that are about the same size that do fine." I'm sitting less than a mile from one right now. Winterplace, in Southern West Virginia. And it certainly doesn't have a built in base like Dallas Ft. Worth. "That exists only in a CGI publicity video produced by real estate developers. Again, report back when this is all done to let us know how it all turns out." First of all the negitive connatation that you imply with the term "Real Estate Developers" is rather disingenous as it is usually applied to people who buy a piece of property chock it full of houses to sell for profit. Sometimes with substandard work. These guys on the other hand have a proven track record of developing properties for private entertainment companies that have been rather successful. And as far as your dig on these guys track record of beautifully themed and highly immersive environments they built Disney's Animal Kingdom and Universal's Islands of Adventure. Not to mention Atlantis Resort and Casino and Paris Las Vegas. Thats far more impressive than some of Disney's recent parks, DCA and WDS Paris as examples.
Originally Posted By dshyates "...over places like Vail, Aspen or Steamboat." fkurucz, If I remember correctly you are a Coloradean. It won't appeal to the Aspen skier for sure, but I could easily see it appealling to the average Keystone skier.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "And it certainly doesn't have a built in base like Dallas Ft. Worth." But it's still good enought to pull people from further away. I have made the 6ish hour drive there several times (a few times just for the day) to go to Winterplace. I doubt many people would drive more than about an hour to get to the Bearfire place from the looks of it. It seems about the same size (probably smaller) as Sugar or Beech in North Carolina, which are great for getting some skiing in (tide you over until you have time to go to a real place), but hardly the destination that Bearfire is claiming to be. If they are planning on it being a terrain park, then they are catering to the entirely wrong audience with their promotions I've seen. It appears to be going for the rich folks about 10-15 years away from retirement. While there may be some people in that group who are into halfpipes and jumps, I doubt there are many. It would be like building Magic Mountain but advertising it like Disneyland. While there isn't anything inherrently wrong with either style, they tend not to mix particularly well. Just my guess, but I would say that the people who want terrain would still go to the smaller places before Bearfire, because it looks like it will be extremely expensive with little for even them to do. If there were enough terrain features to get people there, it would still be very difficult to get much in on a single run. This means that a lot of time will be wasted in line and on lifts. Generally, it seems like a small time hill trying to get the same folks would would go to a place like Aspen.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Disney is truly no longer the world leader in themed entertainment>> Dabble in hyperbole much? I don't know what you expect Disney to do with WDW. Did they not just build EE not all that long ago? The resort is pretty much "finished;" there ren't going to be any more gigantic projects. Don't look for a fifth theme park. It's all about maintaining the numbers now.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Dabble in hyperbole much?" Duh, what would a good Internet debate be without hyperbole, straw man exaggeration, and the Abilene Express. "The resort is pretty much "finished;" there ren't going to be any more gigantic projects." I don't believe that for a second. They could very well announce one of these as an addition to Blizzard Beach. Its only 35 acres. Thats DCA sized in the middle of 47 square miles.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss IMO, the resort is fniished. Not saying they won't make additions and changes to existing parks, but building more won't add to Disney's bottom line. And that is the bottom line: it's a business first, as much as they tell you it's about dreams. That's marketing, not reality.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << They could very well announce one of these as an addition to Blizzard Beach. >> It would make more sense as an addition to the Wide World of Sports. This is another flaw in the Bearfire concept -- they are marketing this like a standard waterpark or other general entertainment venue. However, snow skiing enthusiasts are usually more on the athletic side in general. You're not going to win them over with ski runs that aren't particularly challenging or activities that cater to those who normally lounge in front of the TV all day and think the theme park is the source for an adrenaline rush. If you look at indoor ski facilities in other countries, they are marketed more towards the athletic side of skiing and operate as practice facilities moreso than entertainment venues -- probably because that's where the market is.
Originally Posted By dshyates As far as I know there has never been a resort like this so it is really hard to judge its popularity. And it is being marketed to families. Where the teens can go to the ski/snowboard terrain stuff or bobsledding, Mom can spend the afternoon at the spa, and Dad can take the 8 year old skating, tubing, or have a snowball fight in the snow cavern. When everyone is done playing they can meet up with Mom, who is shopping in the Village and have a nice dinner. After that they can retire to the lodge to continue the fun tomorrow, or drive home. Considering it is rather small I don't see why, when school is out during a 100 degree Texas summer that this place couldn't be at capacity everyday.
Originally Posted By dshyates And I believe that this place IS a regional entertainment venture. And DFW could be the perfect place for it. Texas has a huge skiing demographic. They don't have easy access to skiing and DFW area is on the prosperous side of the economy. No, it won't replace that trip to the Rockies. Just like for us a trip to Busch Gardens doesn't replace that trip to Disney World, but a Saturday trip to Disney World from WV isn't realistic anymore than a Saturday trip to the Rockies from DFW. How many of us have season passes to non-disney parks simply because we like parks.
Originally Posted By MPierce I don't know how I missed this thread to begin with. From what information I get from my friends in the Metro-Mess of Dallas Ft. Worth this resort is being built close to the Mariot in the DFW Aiorport area. Yes DFW is a major hub very easy to get to, and as dshyates has pointed out skiing is very big in Texas. Dallas is the number one supplier of out of state skiers in Colorado. That's followed up by Houston. Dallas also has a World Market that brings in a lot of folks. It's loaded with fine dining plus other varied night life activities. Four major Sports teams Six Flags over Texas, an excellent zoo, and museum area as well as art galleries as well as other cultural centers. It's also caters to a lot of conventions. A year round mini ski area may be a big draw or it might not be. It certainly won't be as big as WDW, but it may find it's own little niche. I think the main point of dshyates post is, hey Disney take a look at other people thinking outside of the box. So that makes this post very relavent to what is going on at WDW. Think outside of the box, give us something different Give us entertainment that is different. Give us all the things that made us fall in love with Disney in the first place. I think I might be spending more of my free time in the DFW area in the future.
Originally Posted By MPierce Like so many people I am no longer capable of flying to Utah or Colorado, and spending a week on the slopes. I think I might still have enough left in me for a little bunny slope like this one though. Believe me when you are no longer capable of a full day on the slopes you miss it. At least this would be better than nothing.
Originally Posted By dshyates I bet they will have a cool fondue chessel in the village that would be a nice place to sup after a hard day of hitting the spa...slopes, I meant slopes.
