Originally Posted By vbdad55 teachers and school administrators -- who knew how much money a school administrator could make and the sweet pension to go along with it.... AD in our school district makes $160k - retiring after 40 years next year and pension is 70% of last years salary.(per year) hoping it doesn't change for them as my oldest graduating in May as an education major
Originally Posted By fkurucz They are nowhere as generous in Loveland. I believe a HS Principal makes 80K.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ all driven by supply - demand ( also the 4 high schools here are 3500 kids each - so very large ) - but even at $80K that pension is going to be like $55-60K even if they don't bump up the salary the 2 years before retirement as is traditional for administrators. find that anywhere else...
Originally Posted By jonvn This is why you need unions. Without them the corporations can do anything they please, and there is no recourse.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <This is why you need unions. Without them the corporations can do anything they please, and there is no recourse.< there is a lot of flip sidde to unions also.... the reason GM and Ford can't build a cost competitive car is unions also - so as they lay off 100,000 union workers that is also an issue. Longevity ends up costing them as they pay $80,000 / yr for someone to put on bumpers because they've been there 25 years.... also my uncle was a union printer ( about 10 years ago) when he lost his job. He could NOT get another job that was non union ( even though he had offers) - without risking his pension and union status -- he was out of work for 3 years as they promised him job after job, in the meantime his diabetes took control and his eyesight got bad and he never worked again... so let's not glorify unions either... there's a huge downside... when you are the best worker in your group but everyone gets the saem increase - what happens to your incentive to continue to be the best -- the answer lies in those aforementioned American Cars - especiallyin the mid 70's to say 1990 -- and they have never recovered
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Unions are a thing of the past. They promote mediocrity and are set up to get the least work for the most money. Unions suck.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Unions suck.>> Unions are needed more than ever with the Wal-Marting and Off-shoring of jobs in America. Unions are necessary when employers hold so much power that they can do whatever they want without regard to its employees. Yes, unions in the manufacturing industries have gone overboard and cost this country jobs. But there should be a middle ground, and it is much needed at this time. Neo-cons suck.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Didn't you know? Beau is an independently wealthy titan of industry. Otherwise why on earth would he endorse political viewpoints that actively suppress his own rights, raise his taxes, lower his services, and reduce his quality of living? Oh wait - he's a republican - they hold all kinds of beliefs that are counter to their own best interest.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Oh wait - he's a republican - they hold all kinds of beliefs that are counter to their own best interest.>> Isn't it amazing?? All the REALLY wealthy Republicans look at folks like Beau and laugh their ass off. That's the Republican trick... make middle income people believe that they are actually upper income people so they vote to screw themselves.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Yes, unions in the manufacturing industries have gone overboard and cost this country jobs. But there should be a middle ground, and it is much needed at this time. < finding the middle ground is the issue...to be certain.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Actually the Dem programs make the 'supposed' middle class pay proportionately more for the Great Society programs than any other income status. So who's kidding who about class status ? But since it seems only republican bashing is in vogue except for one poster..I am sure this is still some GOP trick.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Actually the Dem programs make the 'supposed' middle class pay proportionately more for the Great Society programs than any other income status.>> But the Democrats don't pretend they are giving you a good deal like the Republicans do.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It's like the Dem pols who cry poor when some of the richest American's are leading the chant. to say convincing the middle class they are upper class is a GOP trick is a very tired try at a shot -- yet during the Dem reign when the .com fake balloon existed the Dems tried to convince everyone that brick and mortar didn't matter either.... same kind of comment -- yet neither are true... who pays more proportionately for medicare / medicaid / fica / income tax / property taxes / sales taxes than the middle class ? Answer is no one. For years stuck with a marriage tax penalty also.... I just guess I never realized that the middle class was being duped by the GOP -- and helped by the Dem's...I must have missed the memo
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<Actually the Dem programs make the 'supposed' middle class pay proportionately more for the Great Society programs than any other income status.>> But the Democrats don't pretend they are giving you a good deal like the Republicans do. < no unnofrtunately lately they don;t say much of anything unless it is bashing someone....that is the problem I have..lots of anger, no solutions. If only someone in the party put forth solutions instead, maybe this country could find a middle moderate ground again, but much like here the Demleadership is too busy bashing anything associated with Bush to actually have a unique idea or plan of their own. as far as pretending - then explain to me how the social programs are designed to get everyone TO middle class because in someones mind that is the all-american place to be - conratulations when you get there -- you make too muchmoney for any assistance in anything, and not enough to afford to love a middle class existance without being in debt. That IS the good deal they sell also.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Unions are needed more than ever with the Wal-Marting and Off-shoring of jobs in America." I think that's right. Yes, unions cause problems, but without them, what we see happening is that companies just run ragged over the employees. They have no recourse. With more and more benefits and pensions going away, and employers basically thumbing their noses at employees, hopefully soon the pendulum will swing back the other way. The problem with unions is that they get so screwed up and lose track of what they are there for, and become an entity unto themselves, and start enforcing screwy rules. That's no good either. But employees right now have almost no rights when it comes to the workplace, and that's not a good thing for the average person.
Originally Posted By jonvn "the Dems tried to convince everyone that brick and mortar didn't matter either...." I don't think it was the democrats doing that. I think it was idiot 20 year olds convincing even more idiotic 50 year olds to invest their money in such ideas. "I never realized that the middle class was being duped by the GOP" I think they are. They are voting against their own best interests. Mostly through these "values" arguments. Oh, you can't afford to live in your home anymore? Look over here! Gay marriage! Can't have that! Basically, that's what the GOP has been doing. I hope that well is finally running dry.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But the Democrats don't pretend they are giving you a good deal like the Republicans do. < the democrats have USED the middle class to support their programs and that more than anything else has cost them elections..IMHO it is not that Bush had any great plans, but the tax breaks aimed ( in perception or reality - it doesn't matter ) for the middle class, and items like easing of the marriage penalty went a long way....it wasn't Monica Lewinsky, or any of the circuses surrounding that put on by the GOP that cost them the 2 elections...it was middle class america saying we've been used long enough..we're going to try something else. The Dem's won't take on the rich to support their programs, too tough a target and too many of their own pals also at the top -- the under represetned middle class has always presented an easier target... If they actually really did go after the rich instead of killing the middle class with their plans in '08 -- they would walk away with the election...because the moderate middle class would be all over that...but they won't it appears. If they run on a platform to roll back the current tax breaks they will lose. the problem for both parties is middle class America is being off shored to India and Brazil and China...and NEITHER party gives a rat's petuite about it....so we'll see in another 5 years or so who they will have to soak then.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I think that's right. Yes, unions cause problems, but without them, what we see happening is that companies just run ragged over the employees. They have no recourse. < many of the 100,000 workers at Ford and GM scheduled to lose their jobs are union employees, it didn't help them. <<But employees right now have almost no rights when it comes to the workplace, and that's not a good thing for the average person.<< however his is also a TRUE statement..we're back to finding that middle ground again. Oh and when is the last time you heard a politician from either party give any time or plans for this issue ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"the Dems tried to convince everyone that brick and mortar didn't matter either...." I don't think it was the democrats doing that. I think it was idiot 20 year olds convincing even more idiotic 50 year olds to invest their money in such ideas. < if the GOP gets blamed for today because they are in power = thent he Dems get blamed because they were in power during .com , or else we talk sense here and neither party is innocent in any of this...can't have it both ways
