Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Blue Ohana Terror: Your 1989 figure is definitely in the ballpark, but I always said WDW jumped the shark when the 15th anniversary ended, around 1987. The 15th was an 18-monther too. After that, Captain EO, Norway, the new resorts, Splash Mountain (really debuted around the 20th, but the greenlight was given after the 15th), and the entire MGM studios all changed the atmosphere of Disney World. Some of the changes were good, and some snowballed into Mickey's Spaceship Earth Wand. I say the 15th celebration was the swan song.>> This spirit disagrees. The 15th Anniversary was far from the swan song. WDW was expanding a lot, true. But most of those additions were quality. It wasn't a bigger is better deal as much as we're going to give the guests so many more great reasons for visiting us and staying even longer. No. I've always believed, and many former Disney Imagineers do too, that WDW jumped the shark in 1996 with the no substance never-ending 25th Anniversary that featured a pink castle, a song that made Small World sound great and an (alleged) E-Ticket in Test Track that opened months behind schedule and overbudget and broke down frequently, which it does a decade later. It was also the time when WDW's additions became notable more for the subtractions they took with them. And when WDW expansion, with the exception of the fourth gate, was largely confined to hotel rooms and timeshares. Things weren't stale at WDW in 1986. But they sure were by 1996 ... and many of those stale attractions are still untouched in 2006.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad "jumped the shark" <----- huh? The whole thing about Epcot being old now is kind of like the argument for or against updating the COP. It has progress in its name for crissakes, but should it be updated? It is what it is. And as for the big wow, I like the big wow. Everest was a big wow for me. What do you build it not a big wow?
Originally Posted By brotherdave Well, I visited WDW this past June, and this is how I would compare today's attractions verus the originals. Universe of Energy: Today's version is just too goofy for me and I found it a waste of time. The original, especially the beginning with the wonderful animation of the formation of fossil fuels was much better, imho. But, I do have to agree that the original film after the dinosaurs was very dry. I remember falling asleep during that segment at least TWICE during previous visits. However, the silly, gimicky film with Bill Nye and Ellen just doesn't do it for me now, either. And that animatronic Ellen batting that dinosaur with a broom is ridiculous! A reworking of the storyline is needed again. Something in between, perhaps. Winner: Slight edge to older version. Horizons vs. Mission Space: I used to absolutely LOVE Horizons. It was my favorite Epcot attraction, and still will be one of my all time favorite Disney attractions! And I rode it many times during my visits to WDW. Very optimistic and entertaining. Mission Space, on the other hand, I can't say the same for. I really disliked this attraction and I felt a little queezy from it. It's definitely NOT for everyone like Horizons was! I know that many people like it, and I suppose that it has it's place at Epcot, but, it could have been built without removing another attraction. To me, it just doesn't have the same appeal as Horizons. Winner: Horizons World of Motion vs. Test Track: This one is a much tougher choice for me. I really liked World of Motion, but, it did leave feeling a bit cold towards the end. I mean I LIKED it, a lot. But, I didn't LOVE it like I did Horizons or other Disney attractions. Yes, I wish they could have kept it. But, Test Track, with all its flaws, I have to admit that I really like, too. I just found it to be more of a 'fun' attraction and I definitely find it very re-rideable. Somehow, I wish Disney could have somehow kept World of Motion AND added Test Track as a companion ride. I think having BOTH attractions would have been my choice. Winner: Test Track, by a very slim margin. Journey Into Imagination: Ok, I never got to ride the second (and often reviled) version of the ride. But, the original was SOOOO much more imaginative and entertaining. Lots of "IMAGINATION" went into the development of the original, and it was better by a long shot. Still, the current version does have some merits (especially when comparing it to the second version from videos that I've seen), but, definitely lacks the awe inspiring creativeness of the original. Figment was more childlike and inquisitive in the original. In the current version, he's more of an annoying 'know it all'. Still, it does have some charm to it, just not like the original. At least they returned "One Little Spark" to the attraction. Oh yeah, the original Image Works was MUCH better than what's there today! Winner: The original Journey Into Imagination, by a long shot! Magic Journeys/Captain Eo/Honey I Shrunk the Audience: Magic Journeys was interesting, but, to be honest, I don't really remember much about it. Too abstract. Captain Eo was corny and cartoonish (as was Michael Jackson!), but it was kind of fun. Didn't care for the music, though. HISTA is boring, pure and simple. Winner: Captain Eo, but, I vote for a totally new movie experience to happen soon! Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks/Soarin: Kitchen Kabaret was a Disney classic. We always made sure to see it when we were there. I really do miss it. Food Rocks was 'OK', but not as good. And Soarin', well, it's a totally different experience than what was there before. Apples and oranges, I suppose. I liked Soarin very much, but didn't get 'blown away' by it like most people. Again, I would have liked to see them keep Kitchen Kabaret and Soarin in the Land, but, if I have to choose... Winner: Soarin, by an edge. It is innovative and deserves to be in Epcot. (I still miss Bonnie Appetite, though!) The Living Seas: The original Sea Base Alpha was incredible, and I loved how the hydrolators took you 'down' to the ocean floor. The Sea Cabs, however, were a huge dissapointment. Now, I have not rode Nemo yet, but, the ride certainly sounds a LOT better than the original Sea Cab ride. Personally, I would have loved to have seen the original concept of the Living Seas built with Poseiden and the "bubble car" omnimover dark ride, but... Winner: Nemo's Undersea Adventure over Sea Cabs, but, original Sea Base Alpha over current version. Communicore vs. Innoventions: Although, there were some interesting elements of the original Communicore, overall, Innoventions is a little more entertaining. I just wish they could do more with the concept than what they have. Winner: Innoventions (by default).
Originally Posted By DVC_dad ^ ^ ^ Yeah the Nemo is totally awesome and Turtle Talk is too...but the Hydrolators are forever gone now The entire concept of sea base alpha is lost forever.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I haven't been to WDW in about seven years, so I can't say how I feel about comparing today's Epcot with yesterday's EPCOT center. But I think it might be a bit like comparing today's DL with the DL of my youth; I love the DLR, but I miss the way it was in the 60's too. That doesn't mean I would want DL to have stayed the same all these years though.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>Ah yes... The EPCOT that never was and always will be...<<< For those of us who experienced it prior to 1990, this statement just reeks of a lack of awareness of what was really there. >>>Jump the shark?<<< I'm just going to copy and paste the WIKIPEDIA explanation: Origin The phrase specifically arises from a scene in the hit TV comedy series Happy Days. During the show's run, the writers were challenged to come up with new, fresh stories; they developed a story where Arthur "Fonzie" Fonzarelli is on water skis, wearing his trademark leather jacket despite the well-known negative effects of salt water on leather, and, quite literally, jumps over a shark. Many have noted the shark episode as the moment when they realized the show was no longer worth watching, considering the scene to be unrealistic and of poor quality, making it impossible to maintain suspension of disbelief. Even before "jumping the shark" was employed as a pop culture term, the episode in question was cited many times as an example of what can happen to otherwise high-quality shows when they stay on the air too long in the face of waning interest. Producer Garry Marshall later admitted that he knew the show had lost something as the crew prepared to shoot the scene. However, as he pointed out in the reunion special that aired on February 3, 2005, Happy Days went on to produce approximately 100 more episodes after the "jumping the shark" episode. During the same special, in response to an audience member's question, Marshall introduced the notorious clip and noted how the show had inspired the term. Jumping the shark is a metaphor that was originally used to denote the tipping point at which a TV series is deemed to have passed its peak, or has introduced plot twists that are illogical in terms of everything that has preceded them. Once a show has "jumped the shark", fans sense a noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm. The term has also evolved to describe other areas of pop culture, including movie series, music, or acting celebrities or authors for whom a drastic change was seen as the beginning of the end. These changes are often attempts to attract their fans' waning attention with over-the-top statements or increasingly overt appeals to sex or violence. Some have broadened its use to simply describe any decline in appeal for the subject in question, without requiring a significant "jump the shark" moment as justification. Jump-the-shark moments are typically scenes that finally convince viewers that the show has fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise. In these cases, they are viewed as a desperate and futile attempt to keep a series fresh in the face of a decline in ratings. In other cases, the departure or replacement of a main cast member or character or a significant change in setting changes a critical dynamic of the show.
Originally Posted By pitapan16 I was'nt there in the 80's as I was only born in 86 and made it to Epcot in 93' but I loved it then, and I still love the place. But yes, i think all of DisneyWorld have some serious situations in need of addressing as once Disneyland park needed prior to 2004 throughout the late 90's.
