Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I think Kimrue is brining up a very valid point. If you only log onto LP ocassionally and read all the negative stuff. You can't help but think this place is a drag. Isn't this suppose to be a Laughing Place!!! Cheer up everyone, things are getting better!
Originally Posted By Skellington88 I am one of those chief complainers you speak of. I keep going to Disney to support the things I enjoy..like Ohana's, Star Tours, Splash Mountain, etc. as well as to check out some of the new stuff like Soarin', Expedition: Everest, and then in two weeks to check out Pirates. I am careful to not support the things I dont like..for example I walk past mission:space, tiki room and stitch and voice my disgust out loud as I walk past and not going on those attractions.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 However there is no need to complain now. Everyone should note..the complainers won the war. The disgrunted shareholders teamed up with us complainers and together we ousted Eisner and brought it such visionaries as Steve Jobs and John Lasseter. Peace and justice have been restored! huuzzaahhh!
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< You are all missing the point, the point is, when you spend your money at Disney and support them even though you dislike the direction they are headed. They will continue to head towards that direction. Disney will never change as long as they are making money going the "cheap route". >>> To find the answer to your original question, ask yourself this: "Why do you vote?" How many elections are decided by a single vote? How many elections are decided by a single post on a message board? How many big corporations change their behavior based on a single consumer boycott?
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb the problem with boycotting WDW specifically is that it's such a big deal trip for most families, many only go once, that how're they to know you're upset w/ the product.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I always find it amusing how people love to attack the messenger instead of facing facts and/or opinions they find troublesome. Kind of like the love America (i.e. the current administration) or leave it. That's laughable. I love TWDC and its parks. I have friends -- good decent creative people -- who work for the company and, sadly, many others who have been forced out by the amazing dumbing down/money as the only objective attitude that began in the mid-90s under Eisner and has continued unti recently. I still love WDW. That's why it pains me to see how overdevelopment of hotels (and possibly parks) has led to lesser quality and lower standards across the board. It's most apparent in the MK, which is a poorly maintained, tired park that relies on a tourist base to pump up its numbers/popularity. Anyone who visits any of the other MKs in the world and thinks they are getting the best Disney can provide in O-Town is simply deluding themselves. Doesn't mean I can't have fun at the MK, but I do notice every detail that's out of place, everything that's falling apart, every blacked out window on Main Street, every slovenly unkempt CM, every shop that's loaded with princess (and now likely Pirates) merchandise. I don't even know why I bother to post on threads like this, except because I KNOW these boards are frequently trolled by Disney execs, publicists, marketing reps etc ... not to mention reporters too. I know that things written here do get talked about at the highest levels of TWDC at times. In short, I know the value of every word I post.
Originally Posted By Skylardad The reason for the complaining is quite simple, the majority of posters here and on other sites have a WDW from yesterday to compare with the WDW of today. Here is how I illustrate my point... If you work for a company for 30+ years (the amount of time I'm sure many of us have been going to WDW), there is something that holds you to the job - whether it be the work you do, the people, the money, company philosophies, ethics, etc. Now, if that company gradually starts taking things away that made it great, for example: cutbacks in benefits, pensions, creative freedom, down-sizing, etc. you will no doubt become frustrated and voice your opinion. To me, that is what is going on here. It is documented fact that the Disney company has striiped away or alienated brilliant talents and made changes in all of its divisions for monetary reasons versus the core values and heritage the company was based on. While Eisner's regime may have had good intentions of building the company into a media giant to give it a solid future, it is now discovering that it has probably overgrown. At WDW alone it is impossible to employ 55,000+ CMs who all share the same passion for the company that we do. I'd venture to say a large per-centage of the CMs are there simply for the paycheck and the free tickets - not with the hope of growing with the company and contributing to its future success. The inability to maintain such a massive workforce has forced WDW to eliminate many of the little and some of the big things we have all enjoyed. While WDW has never officially claimed it to be, I think this is why Wonders of Life remains dormant 11 out 12 months of the year; why Living With The Land will soon feature a taped spiel rather than a CM; why Golden Horseshoe Revue no longer has shows; why the double decker busses no longer operate at Epcot; why Epcot no longer has a parade; etc., etc. Hopefully the changes at the top of the Disney company (Iger and friends) will continue to revive the things that made the Disney company a well-rounded and respected one - a company that attracted visionaries and the best talent. So far it seems that their heart is in the right place.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo ^^^^Hmmm, I think there are many valid points to this arguement. And most of you make a lot of sense. Let me use my own experience to illustrate choices. Will, I get miffed at some of the changes coming in - Id much rather ride Horizons rather than Mission Space for example. But let me give you some of my personal history. I fell in love with Disneyland in 1976, during the bicentennial celebrations. My passion for the park grew to such an extent that it became obsessive, to the point where my teachers would not let me include any aspect of it in my shool work, my Dad started to hate the place, and my mom would treaten me with therapy. No joke. As I got older, and learnt of WDW and the building of epcot, it became a life long dream to experience it. Well, I finally made it shortly after Epcot's opening. I love Epcot, the most of all - on par with Disneyland. But even in 1984, I really felt the MK lacked soul compared to the original. I loved some of the differences - Hall of Presidents and COP (still ove these), but overall, it was no Disneyland. I moved to the UK in 1986, and went a number of years without Disneyland, without WDW, no DLP or Disneystore at the time, no Disney News anymore (they wouldn't ship back then), and no internet. Talk about a Disney famine, I was miserable - though my obsession became much healthier. 1992, EuroDisney as was opened and I was there for it's opening. I had saved for 3 years to do it (they were lean times for us as a family, and I worked 3 jobs to be able to go - told you I was obsessed). I fell in love, it was almost as magical as DL and had a number of other cool things. By 1993, EuroDisney's standards started to slip and have been going south ever since in my books. But do I stop going? No. The Disney park of today is not as good as the Disney park of yesterday IMO, but it's still better than no Disney park. But I still complain. Our last trip (May 2006) I twisted my ankle on a pot hole in the park, saw kids doing drugs in Discoveryland, had kids smoking in the back of our boat on IASW etc. But I will still go. Do I like those experiences? Hey no. But it's better than no Disney experience. Similarly, with WDW (back on topic here). I don't think the MK is all that - it pales in comparison to DLP and DL IMHO. However, we will go for the differences - Splash Mountain, Country Bears, Hall of Presidents, COP and Wishes. And we'll have a great time. MGM - we'll hopefully enjoy Playhouse Disney with the little one's and a few other attractions. But our main reason for going are Epcot and DAK, as well as staying at the Animal Kingdom Lodge. It was a tough call, and we nearly went to DL instead, but we have been there a couple of times since our last trip to WDW in 2000. What's the point of my rambles? Well my point is that I love Disney. More than anything else (except my family). But I have to admit, I don't love it as much as I used to, and that is because the live entertainment has lessoned, the parks do not appear to be as clean as they once were, although some new attractions look great - there have been a few duds (I remember the day when every new Disney attraction was awesome). I won't stop going (not yet anyway), but I highlight my disappointments in the hope that they may be heard by Disney. Or if not, with the hope that a fellow LPer will chime in with a "guess what's back/or what's new" story from their latest trip. But I still love Disney. Though I shocked my wife suggesting we take a trip across Canada next year rather than go to a Disney resort!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo BTW Kimrue, I respect your opinion. However, remember a number of us have been patrons of Disney parks around the years for decades, and therefore like to debate the nuances. The business side and sociological analysis of changes in the resorts is one of the things that feed my interest, along with the technological and innovative creations that we experience. The beauty about LP is there is something for everyone. Some people like soap operas, reality TV and sports, others like Opera, Museums and fine dining. Diversity is what makes humanity interesting. And our views on the Disney experience is a logical extrapolation of that human condition.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Davewasbaloo, I've been reading your posts for a long time and I never got the impression that you were a chronic complainer, just a concerned fan. It wasn't ever offensive or an attempt to force me to see it your way. Every criticism I ever read from you, like this last post, seemed constructive and heartfelt. Other's that cannot pass up the chance on the WDW threads to say how great other parks are (like lets say DLR)and how terrible WDW is do not command my attention or concern. Because of it's availability to my home, WDW is the park that I go to. I have been to DLR and quite frankly, although nice, didn't impress me as being any better than WDW either in attraction quality or park maintenance and I went this 50th year, after all the repair was done. The parks in the rest of the world will have to come to me because I will not be going to them. Not because I don't think they are good or better but because logistically I will not be able to go. I go to WDW and I can't actually say I don't notice things that are wrong but anyplace that has that many people tromping about in any given day is bound to have something broken, dented or dirty. I see it but do not let it take over my ability to see past it and enjoy the experience. In short, DLR, TDLR, Paris, Hong Kong may all be so good that it makes one's head spin, WDW has one thing that to me far exceeds any other consideration. Location, location, location. Do I think that they could do better? Of course! Do I think they do a pretty good job right now? Yup! Do I still think it is worth the expense? Yes sir! When I stop feeling that I will stop going. Will my one person protest matter? No, but at least I won't be leaving my hard earned money there.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I understand you p.o.v. Goofyernmost, and appreciate. I also thank you for putting up with my typos and some grammatical errors - I really should proofread. I think your point of DL vs. WDW experiences are interesting. I think people love the park they first experienced. With the exception of my DW - she went to DLP, MK and DL in that order and DL is her fav (although I could have been a key influence). But I think people who grow up with MK perfer it to DL and visa versa. Stands to reason really. And as for your location issue, I understand that too. I would rather spend time at DL or WDW, but we go to DLP more often because it is closer. Now that the kids are getting older, that may well change. I think location also has an impact on attitudes. They say that familiarity breeds contempt. I think this is true. After all, some of our most jaded LPers are the ones that live nearby and visit often - either DL or WDW. Whereas, those who save and go years between visits seem to be more appreciative. Again, this seems to be a natural pyschological response. However, I would love to see some improvements on cleanliness, family orientated attraction development, and more live entertainment again! That said, thanks Disney for all the wonderful new pyro shows, DAK, Lights, Motors, Action, Soarin etc. In short, it's not all doom and gloom! And I can't wait for our trip in November to WDW. This morning my 3 year old said he wanted to see "The Mouse" today, and got my car keys. Looks like another generation of obsessive fans!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I want to add that a visit to WDW doesn't have to be expensive. I must be the king of doing the Magic Kingdom on a budget. To me a visit to WDW is LESS expensive than a vacation elsewhere. Heck, I'm going to Vermont and Canada in July for a week and I have already spent more on flights and rooms than I spend on trips to WDW.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <However there is no need to complain now. Everyone should note..the complainers won the war. The disgrunted shareholders teamed up with us complainers and together we ousted Eisner and brought it such visionaries as Steve Jobs and John Lasseter. Peace and justice have been restored! huuzzaahhh!< any without major complaining from large stockholders ( pension plans) - there would not have been this change...and we would still be in the spiral we were in. I simply cannot understand how someone can say, I don't care about the business side of Disney- just the enjoyment. Understand that if the business side goes in the dumper the enjoyment goes away. Ask those people who used to work for Oldsmobile, Pan Am , US Steel, and hundreds of other wonderful US companies...To blindly go forward and ignore all else to me makes no sense-- there are interconected whether it's GM or Disney. Just because Disney deals in entertainment...and magic-- doesn't exempt them from the 'real world' of business... and that controls the product you eventually get. But hey, what the heck do I know....no one can rip on a bad management decision because they thought it would be better..and that we deserve better...forget that the same posters laud great new things when they happen. The world of Pollyana's is the only correct one obviously... Everything Disney does is 100% wonderful...stock is down 28% over 7 years- but hey isn't that great ! And there is no effect on the future of Disney because of that either--they don't need money-- they can just conjure up some 'pixie dust' - and fix it all... That closed Pavilion at EPCOT is my favorite now....and love the shuttered look at MGM... But geez, go against the 'magic' and suddenly people don't want to come here anymore because everything is not out of Mary Poppins.... I left WE because of people not wanting more than their side of any discussion...and the same thing appears to be happening here...it's positive or it's wrong....
Originally Posted By pixiedust1 <<<<Everything Disney does is 100% wonderful...stock is down 28% over 7 years- but hey isn't that great ! And there is no effect on the future of Disney because of that either--they don't need money-- they can just conjure up some 'pixie dust' - and fix it all...>> Not for anything, but I know what WilliamK99 is trying to say.. Just take a moment to look at a post I started called "Disney Must Be Doing Something Right" Some of you that have posted in this thread posted in that one... Notice a lack of posts first off.. only 15... notice a lack of Good Going Disney... only a couple people said it was great.. the rest of you trampled my thread with chit chat and the rest didn't say anything nice... I posted what I thought would make everyone feel good that LOVES DISNEY... guess not huh... you'd rather bash then praise, even when the figures prove you wrong... Laughing Place, I don't think so....
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>I want to add that a visit to WDW doesn't have to be expensive.<<< I understand what you are saying but we must remember that "not expensive" is a matter of perspective. If your entire paycheck goes to paying mortgages, food, transportation, taxes, clothing and essentials of life, then there is no such thing as an "inexpensive Disney vacation" especially if you have to travel significant distances to get there.
Originally Posted By -em I love DL and WDW and am very lucky I get to spend so much time in the parks and now work 5 min from the MK. For me I know that change happens whether we like it or not- We dont get to make the decisions that affect the parks when/why to close attractions/parades etc so we have to accept them. No amount of crying on the boards will bring back the animators or Tarzan. I accept that (dont like it- but accept it) and hope that the wait for something in its space will be worth it. Cause as much as I miss Tarzan we never would have seen it if the Jungle Book show never closed. What makes me sad is walking down a favorite queue and seeing large parts of the wall designs missing where people have picked the paint away or boarding the carousel and noticing the chipping/missing paint on all the horses. It makes me sad not for my experiance of the park because its not my first time riding the carousel or riding Buzz but for those people it is their first time and they dont get to see it the way it is supposed to be. -em
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < I posted what I thought would make everyone feel good that LOVES DISNEY... guess not huh... you'd rather bash then praise, even when the figures prove you wrong... Laughing Place, I don't think so.... < If you would have made the thread Why do you LOVE Disney- I think you would have gotten more response- we have had lots of those threads over the past 2+ years I have been here-- andI always contibute-- don;t you think the lack of response might be because the way the title of the thread came across-- I read it as a backhanded slap --and my guess is some others did also. If you are not fining any happy stuff here you're not looking in all the right places-- there are plenty of positives...but you seem to dwell on any negative...then open a post " Disney must be doing something right...as opposed to saying, What things is Disney doing right today....what do you like best about WDW etc -- see the difference ? But I am sure this will just be dismissed as bashing also-- so I give up Maybe LP needs to start a new section that reads' ONLY POSITIVE STATEMENTS here....
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <What makes me sad is walking down a favorite queue and seeing large parts of the wall designs missing where people have picked the paint away or boarding the carousel and noticing the chipping/missing paint on all the horses. It makes me sad not for my experiance of the park because its not my first time riding the carousel or riding Buzz but for those people it is their first time and they dont get to see it the way it is supposed to be. -em< careful -em --- you'll be lumped in with us curmudgeons -- only see and speak about the positives...because that's all that matters
