Originally Posted By utahjosh What's the point of this discussion? I just see people posting their beliefs without specific questions anymore. I like participation when someone is actually curious or interested in knowing why or what I believe, but just bashing each other or posting "your truth" back and forth is just boring.
Originally Posted By twirlnhurl The US Constitution is not a history. It is a document by which the founders of the country have vowed to follow (by signing it), which lays out the parameters within which we (the people of the United States) choose to conduct a government. It is entirely arbitrary that blacks only count as 3/5ths of a person in the original document for purposes of representation in Congress. (An arbitrary line which was later taken back.) The US constitution has always been and will always be seen as a document written by man for the purposes of ruling man within an arbitrary and man-made geographical confine. To compare the constitution to the Bible is wrong. Now, if you wanted to compare the Bible to, say, a biography of Thomas Jefferson, I would disagree with you still, but your comparison would at least make sense.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<< I like participation when someone is actually curious or interested in knowing why or what I believe, but just bashing each other or posting "your truth" back and forth is just boring. >>> Is this your truth, or your belief? ;-p
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn The founders have signed it, but what does that mean to you and I? Why justify trillions of dollars confiscated by force, trying people to death, and exposing soldiers to death with a piece of paper signed by dead people? Following hearty to the Constitution is just as worthy as following hearty to the Bible
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn 'What's the point of this discussion?' The point is to examine your beliefs and compare them to the real truth. It is also to reveal that Jesus was indeed from another world, king of that world, prosecuted only for claiming to be king of that other world, knowing the truth, and came to this world to testify to that truth - and that this world ought to listen and understand that truth, and take it as genuine truth. Then realize that all other perspectives are not only untrue, but lies. It's not worth living a lie.
Originally Posted By gadzuux In your certainty of the 'truth', you insult over half of the human race. But don't worry - you're in good company, the pope said much the same thing as you - that all other religions but his are "false religions" - including yours. This smug self-satisfaction you demonstrate is not only unattractive, it indicates the limitations of your own aptitude and imagination. I don't suppose you'll ever understand that but there it is. Here's a tip - so you've got the universe and all of it's mysteries all figured out - keep it to yourself, just in case you're wrong and you don't have any understanding at all about the world around you, which is much more likely.
Originally Posted By utahjosh mrkthompsn: Like you, I believe that Jesus is the only way, I believe that His Truth is the only real truth. But may I suggest that your way of sharing your testimony is a little harsh to those reading. Be a friend first. Show compassion and love, and gently guide people to Christ.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Christ paid the price, the natural consequences, of all that sin. He took this sin and suffering upon himself and we no longer have to suffer all the natural consequences of our own sin. Instead we pay the price he demands, as he is the new holder of the debt: repentance. " Ok, a question about this. If, in fact, Christ paid the price for us and, as you say, we no longer have to suffer the natural consequences of sin...why are we still paying for it? In another thread here, it was stated that all the "bad things happening to good people" were because of original sin. Well, if you say Jesus spared us from that by dying on the cross for us, then why is the earth still operating the same way as if he never did that? There is still much suffereing. Basically, the only thing that changed was that we're now encouraged to accept him into our hearts to get into heaven as opposed to having sacrifices... The one thing about accepting him is that it requires that you know about him first. There are many cultures that had no idea until Christian missionaries spread the message, but how were these people expected to rely on these people for their salvation? Recently there was a tribe of natives found in the rainforests of Brazil that had no outside contact and is living the same way it has for thousands of years. This is 2008! You're telling me that God/Jesus would just let these people go to hell because they should have somehow sought out the "proper way" to get to heaven? They must be contacted and converted? I think that's pretty crappy for God to expect that of his people...they had no knowledge.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <You're telling me that God/Jesus would just let these people go to hell because they should have somehow sought out the "proper way" to get to heaven? They must be contacted and converted? I think that's pretty crappy for God to expect that of his people...they had no knowledge.> I love this question. I also believe that the only way to make the most of our life after death is to follow Jesus Christ and be baptised. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has a great answer to it. We believe that those who don't hear about Jesus Christ or don't have an opportunity to be baptized will be able to hear about it after this life. We perform baptisms in behalf of those who have died w/o being baptized in our temples - they can choose to accept the baptism or not.
Originally Posted By X-san ***You are at least honest enough in your ignorance to illustrate in one horrible statement the very depths of hateful intolerance the christian church has always been based upon. You admitted Jesus was a great guy. Now you're admitting that he's a hater.*** I "admitted" no such thing. Jesus and the actions of his fanatics are entirely separate to me.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The point is to examine your beliefs and compare them to the real truth.<< But you haven't done that, mrkthompsn. In fact, you've done nothing more than say that Jesus is the truth, without offering a shred of evidence. I could start a thread that says "Judaism, Atheism, and Christianity are all based on lies. The only truth is Osiris." By doing so, I would've contributed just as much as you have. You haven't offered any analysis, any comparisons, or any thoughts worth discussing whatsoever. You've authoritatively stated that Jesus is truth. Anyone can say anything and claim that it's "truth." It doesn't make it so. So unless you can actually *demonstrate* why your claims throughout this thread are truth, then they're just claims, and no different than any other religious claims. If you're going to make the claim, you actually have to back it up with more than just wishful thinking.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn Here's the shred of evidence. This is a quote from Jesus as he stood trial in a court of law before Pilate: Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place. "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
Originally Posted By dshyates How is that evidence. That is another passage from the fairy tale. That proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Here's the shred of evidence. This is a quote from Jesus as he stood trial in a court of law before Pilate:<< So, according to your definition of evidence, if someone somewhere says they are bringers of truth, and someone else writes it down, that constitutes "evidence" that it's true. So all I need to do is claim to be a bringer of truth, then teach my truth, then someone else needs to write it down, and, voila, I'm the same as Jesus! As for your question as to why the Bible can't be used, it's just extremely problematic. Too many things in the Bible have been demonstrated to not be accurate. And even if all the historical stories in the Bible are accurate, it doesn't mean the stories of miracles are. People often say that the Bible talks about real people and real places, ergo, it's true. But this is like saying a Stephen King novel is true because it's about real places like Colorado, Florida, or Maine.
Originally Posted By X-san <---busily jotting down all of ecdc's comments for later religion founding project. Now, EC, if you wouldn't mind becoming a martyr in some fashion? That would certainly speed things along.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <How is that evidence. That is another passage from the fairy tale. That proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.> You asked for a shred - not evidence.
Originally Posted By X-san And you couldn't even provide a shred. That's pretty pathetic, bro. Look...what you believe is what you believe and that's GREAT. BUT, don't try and point to some biblical statement and try and call it "proof" of god, because there really and truly is no such thing. There is no proof. You have to believe it, and that's all you've got. If you don't believe be, go ahead and try (without quoting some scripture in the form of "proof"). Can you?
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn The Bible, by the way, can be used as legitimate evidence, because it has been attested by figures of credibility and authority. Just the same as the US Constitution. It can be equally recognized as legitimate because it as well has been attested by figures of credibility and authority. The Declaration of Independence can be recognized as legimitate because it has been attested by figures of credibility and authority. Why the legimacy of the Consitution document be any different than that of the Bible? So what you're really doing is questioning the credibility and authority of those attestment figures.
