Originally Posted By Elderp I beg to differ, I think she would of been arrested and subjected to people criticizing her bad hairdo and clothing.
Originally Posted By X-san ***Would that be before or after you called his mother and adulterer? He didn't call her an adulterer, he called her a fornicator. I think he called her an adulterer.*** Relax. He called her "sexually active". Which would fit the definition of ANY parent throughout history, with the exception of the handful of supposed deities that were conceived by an act of god (a surprisingly common running theme, as it turns out...guess Christians weren't the first ones to label sex as dirty and shameful and something god would have no part in).
Originally Posted By X-san Case in point. ***Plato was the son of Amphictione, Ariston being prevented from having marital intercourse with his wife until she had given birth to him with whom she was pregnant by Apollo.*** Change Amphictione to Mary and Apollo to "the Holy Spirit" and bingo...same story. Guess she was sexually active too.
Originally Posted By X-san ***Buddhist legend tells us that the mother of the Buddha was a queen named Mahamaya. She and her husband, King Suddhodana Gotama, had tried for many years to have a child, but could not. One night, she dreamed that a white elephant holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, circled around her three times, striking her on her right side. The elephant then disappeared (some versions of the legend say that it entered her body through her side). When Queen Mahamaya awoke she told her husband about the dream. He asked the seers to interpret it, and they told him that the gods had chosen his wife to be the mother of a great, pure being. After that it was found that she had conceived, and later gave birth to Prince Siddhartha Gotama, who would later be called "the Buddha", or "enlightened one".*** Granted, not technically a "virgin birth" since she was married, but a miraculous conception without the aid of a mortal man nonetheless.
Originally Posted By X-san ***According to the Zarathushtri religion, after his marriage to his wife Havovi, the prophet Zarathushtra had relations with her three times. The seed from these unions was miraculously preserved in the holy waters of Lake Kans (in modern day Iran). In the future three virgins will, during three different millenia, bathe in or drink these waters, and so miraculously conceive the sons of Zarathushtra. The first virgin's name will be Shemik-abu. She will conceive the first Saoshyant, Ukhshyat-ereta, by bathing in the waters of the lake at the age of fifteen. A millenium later, a virgin named Shapir-abu will bathe in those same waters and conceive Ukhshyat-nemangh, the second Saoshyant. Finally, at the end of time, the last virgin, named Gobak-abu, will conceive by drinking the sacred waters. She will give birth to Astvat-ereta, the final savior and true Saoshyant, who will defeat evil and bring righteousness to the earth This last savior is anticipated by all Zarathushtri; those who believe in only one Saoshyant believe that this is he.***
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Interesting posts, X. Funny how the same type of myth is used in all religions isn't it? And where in the bible does Jesus state that he believed his mother was a virgin? I always found him to be somewhat dismissive of his mom. And what happened to Joseph, his dad? I think the whole Mary virgin cult came after Jesus' death when they were trying to sell Christianity to the pagan Greco-Roman world (where myths of this sort were already familiar).
Originally Posted By mele I've never understood why it mattered at all. I think it's particularly creepy that Catholics believe that Mary NEVER had sex, even after Jesus was born. I don't buy it. Joseph put up with a lot but he was still male...sooner or later, he was going to want to be with his wife. If you think about it, many women in the Middle East STILL have few marital rights. It's unseemly to put so much importance on these things. I don't understand the obsession with it.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Little known teaching: The Virgin Birth is attributed to Mary's Mother...not to Mary. I'm not sure why and never cared enough to ask cause it always struck me as another way of saying, "I got it from a toilet seat." It isn't Mary that was considered a Virgin at the time of Jesus's birth. Imagine that!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Follow up...I know she was always called the Virgin Mary and I am sure that at some point in her life she was. I guess the name just stuck. Sorta like being called Bubba or something. It was probably because she didn't "come across" at her prom. The bible didn't spell it out.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <The Virgin Birth is attributed to Mary's Mother...not to Mary. > The Immaculate Conception is attributed to Mary's birth. "Virgin Birth" is often used to refer to Jesus' birth, though. The Immaculate Conception was a decision by the Catholic church (made centuries after thee fact) that Mary must have been "without sin," so therefore she couldn't have been conceived in the old "sinful" way. She was preordained to be the mother of Jesus, thus her conception was immaculate. There's also the matter of James, called "brother of Jesus." I found a Catholic teaching on him: "A: “James, the brother of the Lord†has puzzled people for centuries. The New Testament refers to three men named James. James, brother of John the Apostle, himself an apostle and a son of Zebedee (Matthew 4:21, etc.), is called James the Greater. He was martyred by King Herod Agrippa I about 41 A.D. (Acts 12:2) and is venerated in Santiago de Compostela (Spain). James, son of Alphaeus, also an apostle (Matthew 10:3, etc.), is known as James the Lesser. He was clubbed to death and is often confused with “James, the brother of the Lord.†This third James is the brother of Joseph/Joses, Simon and Judas of Nazareth (Matthew 13:55, Mark 6:3). Jesus appeared to this James after the Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:7). With Peter, he led the earliest Christian community in Jerusalem (Acts 12:17; 15:13-21), is mentioned by St. Paul (Galatians 2:12) and was stoned to death in 62 A.D. on the high priest’s orders. This James is the presumed author of the New Testament’s Letter of James. He may have been Jesus’ cousin; other members of his family headed the Church in Jerusalem until that city was destroyed in 70 A.D. For us, the term “brother†means a male relative sharing identical parents with the person who calls him “brother.†The term, however, in some societies can include other male relatives, even cousins. Jesus uses “brother†in an even wider sense in Mark 3:35 (“For whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and motherâ€), Matthew 25:40, Luke 22:32 and John 20:17. The Catholic Church maintains that Mary had only one child, Jesus, who was not biologically the son of Joseph (Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:34-35). Already in the second century, the Protoevangelium of James described these “brothers of Jesus†as children of Joseph by a previous marriage. St. Jerome (d. 420) considered them cousins of Jesus. Matthew 13:56 and Mark 6:3 refer to Jesus’ sisters but give no names. There is no scriptural evidence that Joseph was a single parent before marrying Mary. Raymond Brown’s An Introduction to the New Testament (Doubleday) has more on this subject. "
Originally Posted By jdub <<I think it's particularly creepy that Catholics believe that Mary NEVER had sex, even after Jesus was born<>< Yeah, that is completely pathetic. Why can't a committed, married couple have sex? Why can't Jesus have had siblings? Why so adamant that he did not, not, NOT get married & have children of his own? And back to the original question-- after everything V.Mary did for Christiandom---WHY DID SHE HAVE TO DIE A VIRGIN???
Originally Posted By jdub <<“James, the brother of the Lordâ€>> To me, this sounds like a title delivered directly from Sitcom Heaven.
