Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Remy's does look like a lovely step up too. and I love the Skyline bar, simple but very effective it seems. It just surprises me some of the fundamental design issues that have been raised. Agreed, service and entertainment can be fine tuned. I suppose my expectations were higher than some of the toon town stylings of some of the ship. Yes, I know it is disney, but the DCL was quite a game changer in the market. This ship seems like a patch change than a full version change they were telling us it would be. that said, if this means more of a presence in the med, then that is cool.
Originally Posted By Doobie Obviously it gets harder and harder to change the game. Creating the family cruise market was an obvious for Disney. I don't know what they could've done to make as big an impact as that. I think what they went for was bringing the technological advantage they have because of their theme parks to the ships. No matter how well it was done, I'm not sure it would be seen as a game changer. But the places where they've done it... AquaDuck Magical Portholes Skyline Bar Enchanted Art and it's associated game Vastly improved children's areas Animator's Palette I think these are pretty universally thought to be excellent (except for AP). Doobie.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I suppose my expectations were higher than some of the toon town stylings of some of the ship.>> Examples? I'd disagree vehemently that there is anything "TownTown"-ish about the Dream. <<It just surprises me some of the fundamental design issues that have been raised. >> Ultimately DCL was Wing Chao's baby. When Wing retired the whole project (from a design POV) got handed off to a "regular" WDI team. They did a great job overall but there are niggles in the overall layout that just shouldn't be there after 12 years of learning about the industry (and I'd add they weren't present when Wing was the chief architect and master planner on the new ships).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>><<I suppose my expectations were higher than some of the toon town stylings of some of the ship.>> Examples? I'd disagree vehemently that there is anything "TownTown"-ish about the Dream. <<< I will have to of course defer to people who have been aboard, but the sports deck, the snack bar, and the champagne bar, as well as AP looked pretty toon town to me. I miss Wing Chao, he really was one of the game changers at WDI and if he is not yet a DIsney Legend yet, he would certainly have my nomination.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I think these are pretty universally thought to be excellent (except for AP).>> I think most would agree that the decor and interior is a step up - plus the table setting. I think there would be a disagreement concerning the show element though.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Like I say, I recognise that real life is different than photos. Maybe not toonish. Tacky and not to my taste is probably a better way, but it did feel kiddy, which surprised me.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I think the other issue is when you look at Royal Caribbean or Princess, their new range of ships really do step it up. I suppose there could also be an element of my expectations being higher on this one. Especially as they seemed to do such a great job with the original ships. And still seem to get quality when it came to the ships (and Aulani looks like it will be a class offering too).
Originally Posted By Doobie Disney doesn't have the luxury of size Royal Caribbean does with Oasis and Alure. I don't think they could regularly fill ships that large. The layout those ships have amazes me and I can't wait to sail one some day but Disney didn't go for size and I understand that. They went for tech instead and I think they succeeded. Another area I think we're overlooking (for obvious reasons) is the kid's areas. That's where Disney innovated before and they've done it again with huge, amazing kids areas, the new tween area and a greatly expanded teen area including their own outdoor sundeck and spa. BTW, you're right, Pink is not everyone's cup of tea, but I don't think it's cartoonish. Wait until you get inside - it smells like velvet! I really enjoyed hanging in there one night. My Shirley Temple was great, too Doobie.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Not much time today, but finally some discussion here (well, I am enjoying the Staggs thread on the DL board too) ... but the point of the thread (or hook you might say) was what happens when mainstream media writes about Disney vs. social media. You don't control the message ... yet there's so much more of an upside because said message is spread among a much larger audience, one who might never have thought about cruising or cruising with Mickey. If you are blogging on a Disney site, then it stands to reason you are preaching to the choir largely and that doesn't speak to growing a business. You need to reach new audiences (I think that may be why Disney wants to build a resort in Shanghai for instance ;-) ) I also thought the dude was pretty fair, but showed a lack of cruising (in general) knowledge and expectations ... much like Kevin Yee when he took a cruise a few years ago, wrote a column (had very unfair expectations) and was savaged for it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<While I think Brady McDonald and his whiny wife are total losers, this latest article is Reason #472 why I won't ever go on another cruise for as long as I live. I have taken one big, expensive Princess cruise in 1990, and my life has been just fine without repeating that experience. The Disney Cruise Line, with mice cavorting in culturally-appropriate casual wear, sounds even more annoying than the regular cruise lines. >> Cruising isn't for some folks, that's for sure. Just like theme parks aren't for some, beach vacations aren't for some, cities aren't for some, Vegas etc ... I hated the first cruise I ever went on (with Carnival when I was a kid). But now, it is a favorite form of vacationing for me. I've done many on numerous lines and have enjoyed every single one to varying degrees. My DCL Transatlantic last year was my favorite of all by far ... what an amazing 15 days on the Magic. I still feel my experiences on Celebrity and Princess were higher-end, but DCL does have a high quality product (naturally, as with anything Disney, I worry how long that will remain with Matt Ouimet and Tom McAlpin long gone). Cruising, when done right, is one of the most relaxing, best values (although watch prices go up due to the oil speculation) out there. I really want to book another DCL transatlantic, but can't right now due to not knowing where work will take me this fall ... but to get back to your post, TP, I'm guessing you hated your cruise decades ago?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<To answer your initial question, Spirit, there were plenty of "real" reporters on the ship.>> I don't think I questioned that. I know many, including industry (especially RCCL) shill Gene Sloan of USA Today were on the christening cruise. <<The reporters from the Orlando Sentinel who are the equivalent of Brady on this coast were on the ship. I don't know if Brady was invited or not to the preview, but I do know other newspaper reporters from around the country were. Perhaps he just didn't go on the media cruise because he was already going on this one.>> Do you know if Jason Garcia cruised? I can't recall. Got the distinct idea that he didn't. He's the writer who covers Disney for the O-Sentinel. I know they had their theme park blogger, mommy blogger and food critic on the ship. But Disney hasn't been very happy with some things Jason has written of late. From what I've heard, he was one of a few reporters who dared ask our new Governor about whether he was going to change his opinion about casino (non-Indian) gambling in the state at one of the Dream week events, with (naturally) staunch anti-gambling Disney and DCL execs standing by. <<And BTW, since I was looking forward to my own trip on the Dream earlier this month, I read dozens or even hundreds of articles from people who took the media cruise, and several of them were more negative than this one. I thought Brady was very fair, positive with a few qualms and gave an interesting perspective since it was his first cruise of any kind.>> I haven't seen many negative reviews of the Dream product. I have seen some selected negative comments (even a few by Disney bloggers usually buried amidst lots of effusive praise, though). But you've likely read more than I have.
Originally Posted By Doobie <<< I haven't seen many negative reviews of the Dream product. I have seen some selected negative comments (even a few by Disney bloggers usually buried amidst lots of effusive praise, though). But you've likely read more than I have. >>> I agree - no negative reviews and for good reason, the ship doesn't deserve one. Even Brady's wasn't a negative review in my opinion. Perhaps a negative review of cruising in general but not the Dream. He said nothing specifically negative about the Dream (as opposed to cruising) that I haven't read elsewhere. I believe you're about Jason Garcia not being on the cruise though I don't know why. As you mentioned, he doesn't just cover theme parks, he does real news as well. Doobie.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit - With all due respect to Brady is he a "real" reporter? I didn't think he wrote for the main paper - just his blog. I thought that Dawn C. Chmielewski was the beat reporter for Disney (like Brooks Barnes id for the New York Times).>> I know he is employed by the Times. I have no idea what his job description is. <<I do have an issue with some of his naive judgements at times - I chuckled when he said he deliberately avoided Cabanas despite the fact that the food is probably the best buffet I've ever had - and it is a beautiful space (albeit it is a crowded dining room).>> I've actually heard mixed things about Cabanas. That while improved over the buffets on the Magic and Wonder, which are small and cramped, they still haven't gone to the pod style of all the new ships where you don't simply slide your tray cafeteria style and wait behind folks who may want prime rib when you want to just grab some chicken and leave. Is this true? <<I also thought his wife's comments about the spa were very unfair. I thought the service was exceptional - it is the same operator as on the other ships and they are consistently rated highly. I had a number of treatments on the Dream's inaugural cruise and the spa was consistently better than on the Magic and Wonder.>> Her experiences were hers, just as yours were yours (wow, that said nothing). If she noticed kids in the spa, then I'll take her word for it. If she didn't get high-end service, then I'll take her word for it. Much like I'll take your word that the spa is exceptional. Both opinions can be valid because everyone has different experiences. <<Ultimately it just seemed like an incredibly uninformed piece - he didn't realize that tips are extra? He complained about the "incidentals" but DCL is the same as every other cruise line. He reckoned the stateroom "grew"? What an odd comment. He also missed the fact that the staterooms are the largest out there. His snotty comments about kids is also way off the mark.>> I don't recall him commenting about tips, but if he wasn't expecting them then that's very dumb on his part (you do some research before embarking on a trip). As for the incidentals, one thing I've liked about DCL is they don't (or haven't) nickel-and-dimed like most other lines. That seems to be changing a bit and isn't welcome. Cruise vacations were originally sold to the USA market as being all-inclusive. I'm a bit surprised he didn't mention Remy or Palo's extra fees, especially the former which is a HUGE price on a cruise (no matter the quality of the experience, this IS after all a Disney cruise). I took his stateroom remark to be a positive as he thought it was small (and it is really) to begin with, but he found it comfortable enough as the cruise went on. As for kids ... well, yes, they can be an issue on a DCL trip. But I've never really had issues with them on my cruises. I had a bad experience with RCCL a few years ago when every teen in New Jersey seemed to be on my ship and allowed to go wild while mom and dad got drunk and workers ignored them. I do think kids can be a problem on any cruise. Got more thoughts ... but work calls ... will get back tonight or this weekend.
Originally Posted By Doobie <<< I've actually heard mixed things about Cabanas. That while improved over the buffets on the Magic and Wonder, which are small and cramped, they still haven't gone to the pod style of all the new ships where you don't simply slide your tray cafeteria style and wait behind folks who may want prime rib when you want to just grab some chicken and leave. Is this true? >>> On our cruise it did not have a buffet feel at all. There is plenty of room to walk to the exact section you want and get what you need and get out. Doobie.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I also thought the dude was pretty fair, but showed a lack of cruising (in general) knowledge and expectations ... much like Kevin Yee when he took a cruise a few years ago, wrote a column (had very unfair expectations) and was savaged for it.< This is exactly what came to mind when I read this article. You can't go into a cruise ship dining hall and expect the same type of food and service you'd get from a 4 star restaurant. Food on a ship is a very important thing, but you're not gonna get Scott Hunnel making hundreds of dishes at once! I also thought Mr. Brady was pretty unfair about Castaway Cay, basically saying the place was a waste just because it was raining that day. Disney can control a lot of things, but weather ain't one of 'em! Overall I didn't really need for him to state that he'd never been on a cruise before, as his negatives were mostly things that are pretty standard on a cruise ship.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>I love cruising more than anyone I know. But there's no question - cruising is not for everyone.<< Well put! And I don't think everyone realizes this. >>I also thought Mr. Brady was pretty unfair about Castaway Cay, basically saying the place was a waste just because it was raining that day<< I actually think this was a very good thing to include. This happened to us, as well as numerous friends of ours. We are not fair weather folks by any stretch. But there is literally NOTHING to do there when the weather is bad and folks need/want to know this when they go. On a four day cruise with 2 stops, it kind of matters if one stop doesn't count! And that is particular to a Disney cruise since they promote Castaway Cay as a major selling point. Is it an automatic fail on Disney's part? No. But it is important information that you dont' easily come across in all the happy happy planning materials.
Originally Posted By danyoung I don't think I really need to read in a Disney Cruise brochure that if it's raining on my Castaway Cay day, then I'm not going to want to hang out on the beach. I have no problem with Mr. Brady saying that the day wasn't that fun. But he seemed to indicate that it was somehow Disney's fault. And that's just silly.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones I love to travel, but a cruise ship doesn't seem like traveling to me. It doesn't really serve any utilitarian purpose like a plane or a train does. I like to imagine people going places, to jobs to visit family and friends or whatever. A cruise feels like people going nowhere. I guess if you want to hang out on a boat for a few days, it sounds great, but it doesn't wet my travel appetite at all.
