Originally Posted By danyoung As always, I think the negative characterization of DCA is over the top. It's absolutely true that it didn't live up to expectations. And I think it's also true that it was built upon the model of restaurants and shopping, with attractions taking a distant second in the planning, which was obviously a huge mistake. But the park has continued to be a revenue center for the company. Of course it's nowhere near what it could be, hence this redesign to bring it up to speed (and cash income level). But from what I know from insiders in DCA, most stores have been regularly making their sales quotas, the numbers at the gate have been adequate (but not stellar). And overall, DCA has been a fine companion to its older brother. Could it have been built better? Yup. Does it currently suck and is nothing but a drain on Disney resources? Of course not.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "But the park has continued to be a revenue center for the company." Yeah, but the appeal of Disney is the magic and memories and imagination. They don't throw up "successful revenue center" and "increased spending per guest" in the commercials.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer So what does the CURRENT Admin do???? Takes the head of FOODS and "promotes" her to the person in charge of DCA???? What are they thinking??? Mary Niven was not the most popular Director of Food Service for the DLR.... <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_29_39/ai_n14832293/" target="_blank">http://findarticles.com/p/arti...4832293/</a> With MANY folks saying there was way too much focus on Food and Merchandise at DCA in 2001, maybe someone from WDI/Attractions would have been a better choice.....
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< But the park has continued to be a revenue center for the company. >>> Can you cite a source for this, or at least clarify what you mean?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo My point about being a more noble ethos is at least DCA had edutainment and did not rely on toons, unlike this reimagineering of the park. I would like to think when people were saying they wanted the park to be more Disneylike, they meant more immersive, inclusive with knock your socks off attractions. It was far easier for the management team to go more Disney = More Toons. I have been a lifelong hardline Disney park fan (because of the immersive theme parks, I can take or leave the animation)
Originally Posted By WorldDisney I agree with that 100% Dave! What made the park suck from the onset for ME was the fact it lacked any immersive areas in the place minus GRR. And c'mon thats not to hard when all you're doing is just adding trees and water everywhere . As far as the toon stuff, they litterally been doing that to DCA for the last 7 years, starting with FFF and it NEVER stopped!! Every show and ride from that point on has ALL been toons: Alladin, Monsters Inc, Playhouse Disney, Talking with Crush, PBP, TSMM, MEP, Brother Bear show and so on. TOT is the ONLY thing that sticks out to me as a non-toon attraction in all of that time. Hell, they even changed one of their restaurants into a toon theme with TLM. In fact, it was the addition of the cheap toon add ons that made me hate that place more in the beginning. I was never a 'fan' of DCA but I saw it had potential in the beginning. When they got desperate and added the cheap quick fixes, I started to hate it more. But now that they are adding immersive elements again, REAL story telling and etc, thats a big benefit for me. The expansion of it being basically all toons is really just a continuation of the last several years, just bigger and better with actual Disney elements again. To be honest, I'm surprised there wasnt MORE toon attractions in the expansion. Would I have liked it with less toons and more about the original product, sure! Am I settling, probably lol. But did I have any faith that DCA would actually become a Disney level park in my lifetime before these announcemnts, nope!! In other words, you take what you can get my friend .
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I hear you amigo, and after watching steve Davison's brief on WOC, I may well be eating humble pie. But I did definately prefer DCA circa 2002 to the one we went to last year (a real shame). But WOC has me salivating, so I am a little more optimistic now. But still cautious.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Well yeah, that's my point, WOC being a great example! Its toon stuff, but its still AMAZING stuff, period!! WOC looks crazy good! That's a show that people will probably love to death regardless. At least the stuff they are adding has the immersive and story telling quality we expect from Disney and that 80% of that parked solely lacked from the beginning. Ironically, it was the chracter 3D films and the Animation building that showed any hint of true Disney style elements at opening for me. Guess that was a sign . Okay you can include SSL, but the criteria also included it being 'good' lol.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I would argue that it was Soarin' and Grizzly that were the most Disney to me (as well as Redwook Creek Challenge Trail), then when ToT came on board.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney No Soarin is great (and I already said GRR was the better themed areas). The issues for both of those rides, even if they were at the time the top attractions in the place, is that there was no real story follow up. There was no build up to either of those attractions sadly (but welcome to DCA ). Soarin tries a little with the aviation info in the queue but honestly if you didnt have a clue what you would getting on, would the queue help you in any way? Naaah. Same with GRR although I guess the surroundings is all you need for that ride, but it would still be cool if they surrounded it with some theme like the Kali rapids in DAK (and I like GRR waaay better although to this day I've only bothered to ride it twice). And whats sad is these are the TOP attractions in the park and no real follow through although the rides themselves are good. But yeah luckily TOT came around and started to change that.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But the same could be said of Big Thunder or It's a Small World across the esplanade. It is only really DLP, DAK and TDS that really changed things up for Disney in this regard.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney You know, I just realized to this day I have never even been through the Redwood Creek trail and I been in DCA about a dozen times now. WOW!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It is not earth shattering, but it is done very well, and very Disney. I think for the lil Baloos, it was a real highpoint.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<But the same could be said of Big Thunder or It's a Small World across the esplanade. It is only really DLP, DAK and TDS that really changed things up for Disney in this regard.>> Sure, I'm not saying EVERY ride has to be themed up to the highest degree, but wouldnt it be nice if at least SOME of them are, especially the so-called 'big' attractions in a Disney park??? I think this is always the fallacy that is applied. I'm certainly not claiming double standards here, I realize there are a lack of qualities in DL as DCA. The problem for me is that DCA doesnt represent ANY of those elements in a great majority of the park. And again, when the top 3 attractions in the place at the time: Soarin, Screamin and GRR possessed none of those elements, forget the carnival stuff just plopped in like an annual county fair, its a sad affair all around. With DL, there about 30 attractions off the top of my head in that place with great queue and/or story elements. And a lot of the other stuff just have great surroundings to build on their themes like the Submaries, Autopia, POTC, BTM etc. The strong theming of the lands and surroundings helps many of these rides that doesnt have these extravagant drawn out queues like Indy, HM, SM, etc. Thats why I can KIND OF excuse GRR, because you can argue the surroundings is enough for that ride. Some dont, but I can buy it. Still, DCA only started off with maybe 3-4 attractions with some story theming and most was all the animation stuff oddly. And PP rides all fell into its theme of course complementing their surroundings, but yeah, its a present-day carnival, not exactly inspiring or interesting.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> Actually, I think the people responsible for DCA don't think about it for a second and don't care what people think of DCA. << Perhaps you're correct. The most incompetent people in the workplace may be those who are so indifferent about themselves and everything around them that they go through life botching up a series of jobs and tasks. Making things even worse, they may be so egotistical and self-centered, they're the last to realize, or to accept the notion of, just how inept they really are.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Can you cite a source for this, or at least clarify what you mean?< Just perception from talking to CMs, including my DCA CM brother in Merch. From their perspective, the park is making money, just not as much as they could have.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> But the park has continued to be a revenue center for the company. << I recall reading back in 2001 (or 2002) some insider from the DisCo claiming that DCA could do a surprisingly limited amount of business per day or per month and still be able to cover the cost of payroll and other expenses. I've always wondered about that and assumed it indicated the park's original cost was modest enough that if it were a dud in terms of attendance, that would have been a problem mainly due to its negative impact on the company's pride and image and not on its bottom line. It would be interesting to find out the actual specifics of DCA's profit and loss ledger, because that would give me a better idea on just how much, or how little, the DisCo should put into re-engineering the park. >> My point about being a more noble ethos is at least DCA had edutainment and did not rely on toons, unlike this reimagineering of the park. << I'll acknowledge California Dreaming as fitting that label, but that's about it. I guess I can throw in Michael Eisner's love of things like tours of manufacturing plants, which led to DCA's tortilla and bread-baking exhibits, but if that was an ethos one could admire, it also was something quickly and easily nullified by the former CEO's love of schlocky seaside fun parks or carnivals. >> You know, I just realized to this day I have never even been through the Redwood Creek trail << That was one of the few things in DCA 1.0 that had a Disney-esque quality about it -- sort of a more modest version of Tom Sawyer Island -- or was done with enough care and consideration that it at least didn't represent an embarrassment to the park.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> I'll acknowledge California Dreaming << [Edit:] Actually, that should have been Golden Dreams, which fittingly enough is now in the process of being torn down: <a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dustysage/FridayVisions/2009/07-20-09/IMG_1887.jpg" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...1887.jpg</a> The edutainment value of such an attraction also was offset to me because it wasn't even presented as nicely as it could have been, certainly in regards to the exterior of the Whoopi movie. I always thought the structure of Golden Dreams looked tacked on, or jerry-rigged, with a bleached-out mural on one end, the bland industrial mid-portion, and then the re-creation of a famous landmark in San Francisco. It's a relief to see bulldozers now doing what should have been done several years ago.
