Originally Posted By RoadTrip Because the are gratified to know that a guy with a tiny dick can become a billionaire. ;-)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Why do poor conservatives have a billionaire fetish?*** Money worship. That plus what RT said.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "Right. The two groups may be unhappy about the same thing, but the blame is very very different" That's what I said back in #7. "I'm unconvinced there's significant overlap." But there is, and it's precisely because so many Trump supporters don't really have a current political philosophy. They're just angry. And note that the overlap really only works one way. There are plenty of Trump supporters who have told pollsters that their second choice is Bernie. But most Bernie supporters have more of a coherent philosophy, and most of them say that their second choice is Clinton.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***but most Bernie supporters have more of a coherent philosophy, and most of them say that their second choice is Clinton*** That's certainly true for myself, at least. My second (LAST) choice would be Clinton, or if not, I suppose ANY candidate on the Democratic side versus any of the whackjobs running Republican these days. I'll probably have to hold my nose while I vote for Hilldog...
Originally Posted By Dabob2 And I should believe there isn't just because you say there isn't? I provided links that showed this. I don't mean to overstate it, but there is some overlap.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox From what I'm reading and hearing on the radio, Dabob2 gets it. There is overlap between the two groups. The Trump supporters are mostly angry middle-aged and elderly white guys, while the Bernie supporters are mostly younger angry white guys. Both groups are dominated by angry white guys who feel as though the parade has passed them by, and that their candidate can fix it. Problem is, the Trump supporters are morons. They aren't savvy enough to realize that the billionaires like Trump are the ones responsible for buying politicians that have put tax laws into place that favor them and screw over everyone else. Putting Trump in the White House is like putting the fox in the chicken coop. The Bernie supporters get that. The Trump supporters, apparently, never will.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I provided links that showed this. I don't mean to overstate it, but there is some overlap.<< Yes there is and you've explained it very well. I wonder if Bernie supporters are so horrified at the idea that they recoil at it and assume it can't be true. But keep in mind what Dabob said: >>And note that the overlap really only works one way. There are plenty of Drumpf supporters who have told pollsters that their second choice is Bernie. But most Bernie supporters have more of a coherent philosophy, and most of them say that their second choice is Clinton.<<
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "The Trump supporters are mostly angry middle-aged and elderly white guys, while the Bernie supporters are mostly younger angry white guys. Both groups are dominated by angry white guys who feel as though the parade has passed them by, and that their candidate can fix it. " But these are two separate groups. "And I should believe there isn't just because you say there isn't?" Well, you made the claim that there's significant overlap. You need to back that up. Where are the polls that show a significant number of Trump supporters have Sanders as their second choice? Maybe I missed that link? Common sense tells me that the far left and far right don't have much overlap. I need some evidence to prove otherwise. "I provided links that showed this." No you haven't.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<But these are two separate groups.>> But they aren't really that separate. Both groups are primarily white guys who feel like they should be running the show and having jobs handed to them on a silver platter like it used to be for them and/or their fathers. Now the economy is global and unskilled American labor is virtually unemployable. Not having a college education puts you behind migrant workers who can do your job for far less $$$. And that's simply because businessmen like Trump are hiring the migrants, documented or not. That's really the only difference between the two groups. Angry white guys supporting Bernie are angry at guys like Trump. Angry white guys supporting Trump should be angry at HIM like the Bernie supporters are instead of being angry at the migrants and minorities.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<"I provided links that showed this.">> <No you haven't.> Yes I did but here's some more. https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/42sma2/mark_halperin_says_many_trump_supporters_2nd/ <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/01/vermonts-split-loyalties-trump-or-bernie/">http://legalinsurrection.com/2...-bernie/</a> Hell, Bernie himself sees it. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/264277-sanders-trump-supporters-should-back-me">http://thehill.com/blogs/ballo...-back-me</a> Notice he didn't say this about Cruz supporters (who was leading in the IA polls at the time and eventually won there) or anybody else's. He knew he wasn't the second choice of any of Cruz's supporters. Just Trump's.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But they aren't really that separate. Both groups are primarily white guys who feel like they should be running the show and having jobs handed to them on a silver platter like it used to be for them and/or their fathers*** Enough with the bullshit already Skinner. You'd be smart to avoid insulting your allies in this fight, and whether or not Sanders' demographic swings to the white side, it's loathsome for you to be comparing his optimistic-minded supporters (most of which are extremely liberal and hardly "entitled" as you claim) to the likes of Trumpderthals.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. If this is what I wish to believe, then that's my right. No one is forcing you to read my posts. If you don't like them, don't read them.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***If this is what I wish to believe, then that's my right.*** Of course you have the right to your bigotry, just as I have the right to call you on it. ***No one is forcing you to read my posts. If you don't like them, don't read them.*** Nobody is forcing you to comment on my topic, either. You're welcome to do so of course (even when your comments are stupid like in this case), but don't act all surprised when you get called on your bullshit.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip skinner is a major blight on this board and a major reason why it is dying.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Yes I did but here's some more." All anecdotal. Reporters seeking some sort of narrative. Means nothing. "Hell, Bernie himself sees it." Go read that again. Bernie isn't saying Trump supporters like him too. He's saying they should. Big difference. "He knew he wasn't the second choice of any of Cruz's supporters. Just Trump's." No, he sees that much of Trump's supporters have issues with economics and trade, a lot like his own supporters. No one really disagrees with this. But their solutions are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum. He thinks he has better answers to their problems (which is true). This doesn't mean that he thinks he has strong support among them. You have any sort of legitimate poll that shows overlap?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "Yes I did but here's some more." <All anecdotal. Reporters seeking some sort of narrative. Means nothing.> No, not just anectodal. One or two people saying "hey, I heard..." is anecdotal. A sustained pattern over months becomes more than that. These reports are coming from people whose job it is to cover the campaigns. They speak to many people. Their observations, frankly, hold more weight than your "well, it doesn't make sense to me that there should be overlap, so I won't believe it when people say there is." "Hell, Bernie himself sees it." <Go read that again. Bernie isn't saying Trump supporters like him too. He's saying they should. Big difference.> He has subsequently said that he could attract Trump voters in the general election. Loves to point out that polls show him doing better against Trump than Hillary. And why should that be if he couldn't poach some Trump voters? "He knew he wasn't the second choice of any of Cruz's supporters. Just Trump's." <No, he sees that much of Trump's supporters have issues with economics and trade, a lot like his own supporters. No one really disagrees with this. But their solutions are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum.> And how many times have I said this? <He thinks he has better answers to their problems (which is true). This doesn't mean that he thinks he has strong support among them.> I didn't SAY "strong support," so drop that strawman. I said some overlap. <You have any sort of legitimate poll that shows overlap?> You know very well (I think) that that's not what's being polled. It's all inter-party, except the occasional one-on-one matchup in the general (Hillary vs. Trump, Bernie vs. Cruz, etc.) But I'll stand by my statement that sustained observations by professionals in the field over many months, um, trumps your "I don't see it, therefore it isn't true."
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<skinner is a major blight on this board and a major reason why it is dying.>> Interesting correlation since I've gone weeks without posting anywhere on LP for the very reason you cite: it's dying. If you wish to blame me for why LP is falling out of favor with posters, feel free. I don't really give a damn. You hate my guts and have for years. I call it, "Skinner Derangement Syndrome." But the truth of the matter is, I'm not the cause for the reduction in traffic. Other sites are better. LP is a relic and not very sexy when it comes to commentary. I'm surprised it's lasted this long.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>skinner is a major blight on this board and a major reason why it is dying.<< Oh give me a break. I don't agree with all of what skinner posts (and, sorry skinner, but I usually don't have time to read all of them either, they're long, and I say that as a long-winded guy myself). But this is just pure nonsense. People on these boards have been coming here and spouting racist nonsense since LP began. We still have it, we have white a&%holes who show up and lecture "the black community" and talk about how black fathers don't care about their kids. We have guys showing up saying they don't like Muslims and they don't think Muslims should be allowed in this country. And what's your response then? Nothing. Or you engage in the conversation as if it's a reasonable statement for someone to make. You act as if saying this kind of absurd, overtly racist crap is just fine. But Skinner comes on and talks about white people and you guys lose your minds. Wow. So all the rhetoric we've heard the last few years about how black lives matter are cop killers and black fathers are lazy and don't care about their kids and the black community are cowards who won't stand up for themselves and Muslims are violent terrorists is just cool and hey maybe we should chat about that, but say anything about white men and it's a blight on LP and the reason these boards are falling apart and it's pure bigotry. Right. Makes perfect sense!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<and, sorry skinner, but I usually don't have time to read all of them either, they're long, and I say that as a long-winded guy myself>> No need to apologize. I completely agree. I am long-winded. But it served me well in grad school. Wouldn't have completed my M.A. had I not been able to pontificate by the pound. (As my advisor said: "It's not the weight of your words. Just the weight of the paper they're printed on." LOL!) <<But Skinner comes on and talks about white people and you guys lose your minds.>> To be fair, it's not just them, ecdc. It's our entire society. We're still grappling with being an antebellum nation, even though the Civil War was supposed to end all of this racist nonsense. Jim Crow has never completely died off. And the Trump supporters continue to fuel this mindset and attitude towards minorities at every campaign event. Sorry, RT, but ecdc is correct. This is about white privilege and the fear of whites becoming a minority. It's fueling the anti-abortion regulations sweeping state legislatures. It's fueling the anti-immigration and anti-Muslim campaign rhetoric. And it's overwhelmingly behind the condemnation and false presentation of grassroots movements like Black Lives Matter. This is raw fear masquerading as activism against the status quo. Fear of whites becoming a minority. As I stated earlier, the white guys supporting Bernie know who their enemy is: billionaires like Trump. The white guys supporting Trump are simply carrying the anger from generation to generation that started with their ancestors over 200 years ago. One group gets it. The other never did and never will. Just like their forefathers.
