Originally Posted By DAR Most schools it is the teachers who do lunch and bus duty. Plus you get paid extra. But better yet it gets you out there interacting with the kids. Yeah you're right about the vacation days. I mean when you have 8 weeks off in the summer, a week during easter, two weeks during christmas, it's hard to plan ahead. And can and has been done.
Originally Posted By Labuda DAR - I don't purport to know about most schools, BUT having worked at a school during a runoff election back in April, I can tell you what I saw at that elementary school: people other than the teachers doing lunch and bus duty. They did go out with their classes during recess, though. And, loads of people take extra time off around vacations - who said they don't plan ahead? Heck, last year in December, I worked maybe 10 days - the rest of the days I was on vacation, and other people were covering for me at work. I don't see that as being any different than a teacher taking off two days early to spend more time with his or her family over Christmas break, and I don't see anything wrong with it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***-School starts at 8, arrive at 7:55 -School ends at 3 leave at 3:05 No bus duty, no recess duty, no lunch duty*** I don't see anything wrong with this. Teachers are highly trained professionals. Why should they be required to babysit kids while they eat or wait for a bus, when it can be done perfectly well by an unskilled worker? As far as the hours, that's how I roll too. When work is done, I'm out of there. I have other priorities to attend to (like laughingplace lol). If the administrators want their teachers to stay longer for some reason, they should compensate them accordingly. Otherwise, hasta la vista baby!
Originally Posted By tiggertoo DAR is in left field here. As a son of a 50 year elementary school teacher (and still teaching), the hours a teacher spends in the classroom not the whole of the story. They are usually required to have documented and filed lesson plans for every teaching day as well as class material preparation, all of which is done during their "off hours". She once calculated that she works b/t 70 and 80 hours per week. But of course, conservatives are on a rampage against pretty much all public sector positions, unless of course it affects them directly. Then they complain why there isn't enough public sector support. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Let's not forget spending their own money on supplies for their classes. There's a real motivator to do anything extra.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Not to mention, those summer vacation periods when school isn't in session... the teachers aren't being paid. I used to work at DL back when many CMs would work only during holidays and summer. Of those casual/seasonal types, many of them were teachers. They needed the summer work to make ends meet, because compared to the private sector of professional careers requiring five years or more of college, teachers make bupkis. But of course, the anti-union fanatics would rather promote the false notion that teachers are lazy sloths who get 12 weeks paid vacation each year and aren't worth 1/3 the outrageous salary they do get. Liar liar pants on fire! It's a simple ideology, really: Hate for teachers = hate for education. Hate for education = dismantling of education. Dismantling of education = ignorant children. Ignorant children = ignorant adults. Ignorant adults = clueless voters. Clueless voters = easily conned constituency. Republicans have been fighting for decades to dismantle education. What a freakin' surprise. Not.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'm going to use one of my "diatribes" to stand up for DAR. Is it really that outrageous to see the teacher situation as somewhat similar to the cop situation others constantly rail on here? Most teachers are probably dedicated, hard-working, and make sacrifices for their students. But it's silly to pretend like the teacher's unions don't have deeply entrenched roots that do result in some very bad, and very lazy teachers. As for highly trained professionals...well...maybe in Japan. In the U.S., not so much. A bachelors degree with a few extra courses with the teaching certificate and you're off to the races. Plenty of teachers are very smart; some aren't. And like the cop situation, we cheap-ass, greedy Americans get what we pay for. Oh sure, we love our teachers and our firefighters and, yes, even our cops, because we need them. But we pay them a pittance and wonder why some of them turn out to be bad apples.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Not to mention, those summer vacation periods when school isn't in session... the teachers aren't being paid.>> Wrong as a teacher you can set it up so that you are getting paid over the summer.
Originally Posted By DAR <<DAR is in left field here. As a son of a 50 year elementary school teacher (and still teaching), the hours a teacher spends in the classroom not the whole of the story. They are usually required to have documented and filed lesson plans for every teaching day as well as class material preparation, all of which is done during their "off hours". She once calculated that she works b/t 70 and 80 hours per week. >> Good she's probably one who realizes the kids come first.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Wrong as a teacher you can set it up so that you are getting paid over the summer*** That's nothing more than spreading out the same money over a greater amount of checks. The amount is smaller, that's all. The salary remains the same. The point was, and it's a valid one, that these long vacations aren't PAID vacations. Many teachers are forced to find second jobs to make ends meet (I worked with a couple of teachers at McDonalds when I was in H.S.).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In the U.S., not so much. A bachelors degree with a few extra courses with the teaching certificate and you're off to the races*** Depends on the school system. Many places require masters degrees and/or comprehensive continuing education programs.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>But it's silly to pretend like the teacher's unions don't have deeply entrenched roots that do result in some very bad, and very lazy teachers. As for highly trained professionals...well...maybe in Japan. In the U.S., not so much. A bachelors degree with a few extra courses with the teaching certificate and you're off to the races. Plenty of teachers are very smart; some aren't.<<< I agree. We have teachers at my kids school, some so dedicated they come in on Sundays to prepare. They get there early and stay late everyday. But, there are a couple, not many though, who are like the teachers DAR is speaking of. I actually one I know of say she does not come to the extra activities the school has because she's not being paid to be there (like fundraisers for the school which teachers have booths for, etc.)
Originally Posted By ecdc In fairness to the teachers, there does seem to be a double-standard. They are paid very poorly for such an important job, yet we seem to expect them to go the extra mile. DAR has said a couple of times now that it needs to "be about the kids" which certainly implies that teaching is just more than a paycheck. Would we say the same thing about corporate jobs? Nope - those jobs are defended as "well, good for them if they can get the money." We're told those people work hard for a paycheck so don't expect them to give more. So why are teachers expected to make it "about the kids" when other professions can be about making as much money as possible? I'm all for people making money in the private sector, but let's expect the same kind of commitment from those people towards social progress as we do from teachers.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Good she's probably one who realizes the kids come first.>> Indeed, she is. But she's and others are also examples of why I have such a hard time when people claim that teachers are paid too much or get too many benefits. If anything, they aren't paid enough. Granted, there are definitely a lot of poor teachers out there, and unfortunately teachers unions tend to coddle them much more than they should. But the profession of teaching is such a thankless job these days, no wonder some aren't willing to go that extra mile. But the solution isn't to give teachers less, but rather winnowing the poor teachers and enticing better teachers through increased compensation. Heck, isn't this the whole argument made by corporate America (i.e., in order to attract the best applicants, you need to offer excellent pay)? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say. <<Wrong as a teacher you can set it up so that you are getting paid over the summer.>> True, but teachers are technically paid per diem. So in effect, while they are paid during summers, their annual earnings are no different.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<And like the cop situation, we cheap-ass, greedy Americans get what we pay for. Oh sure, we love our teachers and our firefighters and, yes, even our cops, because we need them. But we pay them a pittance and wonder why some of them turn out to be bad apples.>>> Just wait for Obamacare. The same will happen to doctors, well the ones that stay in medicine. This will be the "ahah!" moment.
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Originally Posted By DAR Do teachers not get paid enough? Absolutely, but they're not exactly in the poorhouse. Again I'm using Wisconsin as an example sorry if that offends anyone.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <<Wrong as a teacher you can set it up so that you are getting paid over the summer.>> Not always. The payroll system might not be set up for it, the arrangements for that might not be in the collective bargaining agreement, the money isn't budgeted for the summer months, any number of things could dictate why that isn't true for all.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>But we pay them a pittance and wonder why some of them turn out to be bad apples.<< It depends on locality. Out in my neck of the woods a sargeant with the sherriff's dept makes 125K per year (base salary) plus over time. That isn't a pittance in my book. Teachers out here aren't paid that well. They max out around 70K, and that's with a PhD and 25 years of service. Starting pay is about 35K. Hardly the good life. Out here most of the teachers have summer jobs outside of school. My sister has been a bilingual teacher for 10 years (in North Carolina) and makes 40K. Again, hardly great pay and she tries to pick up P/T work over the summer.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>So why are teachers expected to make it "about the kids" when other professions can be about making as much money as possible?<< A good question. The fact that so many do it in spite of the low pay demonstrates their commitment.
