Originally Posted By skinnerbox The same is also true regarding nurses, but not doctors. Nurses who go on strike aren't "committed to their patients" and tend to be portrayed as selfish greedy union workers when talks at the bargaining table with the hospitals fall apart, as they typically do. Nurses are supposed to be "about the patients" and never for themselves. What's my personal theory about why this double standard exists for school teachers and nurses? Simple. These jobs for centuries have been done mostly by women. Even though that percentage has changed over the past several decades, the majority of school teachers (K-12) and nurses are still women. And women continue to earn less than men in the workforce, even doing the exact same jobs with the same level of experience. Women are still not valued as much as men in our society, and in other cultures around the globe. Until more men become school teachers and nurses, the lack of respect for the work they do will continue.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Teachers out here aren't paid that well. They max out around 70K, and that's with a PhD and 25 years of service. Starting pay is about 35K. Hardly the good life. Out here most of the teachers have summer jobs outside of school.>> 70K would be pretty good here, I guess it depends on the cost of living. Of course you get into the administrative positions and your talking six figures.
Originally Posted By queenbee ecdc, I have no idea what it takes to become a teacher in Utah but a 4 year degree and a couple of teaching classes wouldn't even be close for CA. In CA, one will need a 4 year degree and a 5th year of "teacher's college". Usually, before you are admitted to the 5th year, you need to pass the CBEST and the CSET. (60% of candidates pass the CSET on the first try) You will also need to either pass the CSET for Technology in Education or take an extra class (the waiting list is two years at the local public university or you can pay $1500 to the local private school and take it anytime you like). About 1/2 way through your 5th year you will need to take and pass the RICA. After the 5th year is complete and you have passes all the above tests, you are still not a teacher. At your first job you must sign-up for the "New Teacher Project", this lasts for 2 years. I have seen this be very helpful or totally worthless, depends on the advisor. Now you can apply for a Mutilple Subject Credential that will allow you teach k-6. If you want to teach middle or high school, you need to take a few more classes (Single Subject Credential) and pass the appropriate subjet matter CSET. Now you have a Mutiple Subject Credential but you still will have a tough time finding a job. You need to go back to school so you can qualify for a CLAD or a ELL authorization. At this point you are employable. The starting salary in my district is $32K/yr.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>ecdc, I have no idea what it takes to become a teacher in Utah but a 4 year degree and a couple of teaching classes wouldn't even be close for CA.<< I'll cop to speaking without knowing all the details. I do have a couple of friends/relatives who have been teachers, and I do know an advanced degree isn't required, and there's not much in the way of additional training beyond getting a "teaching degree" when you get your bachelors, which does require a few extra courses. I don't know what additional training and classes are required throughout one's career. So I've probably been unfair in presenting it as a cakewalk - that wasn't my intention. That said, I'd still take issue with the phrase "highly trained professionals." Most teachers (at least in Utah) don't have advanced degrees and do not go through training that, in my mind, would qualify them as "highly trained." Most of them are pushed into a very tough job environment with outdated resources and modes of teaching.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "ecdc, I have no idea what it takes to become a teacher in Utah but a 4 year degree and a couple of teaching classes wouldn't even be close for CA." And right now good, experienced teachers are getting laid off by the hundreds, and not all because their unions won't budge. Here in Long Beach, the teachers' union made a number of concessions just so that "only" 300-400 would be laid off instead of 700-800. Now is not the time to be a newly minted teacher. And yet, here in Long Beach, residents bitch about a large teacher to student ratio and then vote to refuse a tax hike to help solve the problem.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 I am very lucky...we live in one of the best school district in the state (WA). We have a lot of teachers with their Masters degrees and national certifications. The state is making it very hard to keep things that way though. The cuts to education over the last couple of years have been almost criminal. WA state will spend billions of dollars to protect salmon habitats and study the mating habits of whales, or whatever, but the second the state budget is in trouble they start slashing the school budgets. Last school year the school supply list included 3 reams of copy paper, two packs of whiteboard markers, whiteboard erasers, two boxes of kleenex, two things of Clorox cleaning wipes, a pack of pens for the teacher to use, and two packs of pencils to be pooled together for the class. I spent more money on the classroom supplies than I did on my son's personal supplies. It is not that I mind doing it either...my family can afford to do so. I feel bad for the families that have a hard time buying all that because the state will not give schools the money they need to buy supplies.
Originally Posted By queenbee At least 80% of the teachers on my elementary campus have a Master's(I have two myself and am working on a third). It's the only way to increase your salary besides longevity. After that 5th year most people choose to complete their MA to qualify for the higher salary. I forgot to mention in terms of finding a job it's also helpful to be biliterate, English and Spanish. However, there is no extra pay associated with this skill.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Starting pay is about 35K.>> You can barely afford a ghetto apartment in Southern CA on that anymore. Why would anyone worth their weight valiantly put in the 70+ hours of work a week for such pittance? <<70K would be pretty good here>> But if I worked in the private sector and told people I had a PhD w/ 25 yrs experience and earned 70k, they would be aghast and call me an undervalued resource. I'll never understand why Americans compensate the people we owe the most for our way of life the least. Our quality of life is a reflection of our education. But as long as we treat them as dispensable and refuse to give them competitive wages (and 35k is not a competitive wage in CA), fewer and fewer quality people will move into the profession. Slowly we will witness our educational system degrade and other nations move ahead of us as a center of commerce and innovation. It's already happening to some degree. Look at American science and math scores. There are a lot of great teachers still out there, but many are retiring or moving into other professions because of the way Americans choose to treat teachers. Unless we wake up from our anti-anything-public-sector stupor, I think we are in serious trouble as a society.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 It has always amazed me how quick our local governments are to cut education spending whenever there's a budget crisis. No, what amazes me most is that "we the people" always let them get away with it! Why do we place such a low priority on education? It's probably the single most important thing that we can spend money on - and we cut budgets left and right every chance we get!! A democracy cannot function properly without an educated population. And yet, ours seems to be getting dumber and dumber! As our world gets more and more complex, the problems we are going to face are going to be harder and harder for uneducated people to understand. Look at global warming - would this really be such a hot-button issue if more people were educated enough to understand some of the science behind it? And things are only going to get more complex from here on out as our technology gets more and more sophisticated. (Think human cloning, bio-engineered food, virtual reality, etc.) How can "we the people" vote on such matters if we can't even understand them on a basic level. At this time in our history, we should be spending more, not less on educating our young people. But sadly, I just don't think that's going to be the case anytime soon.
Originally Posted By velo >>How can "we the people" vote on such matters if we can't even understand them on a basic level.<< there are many in government that are counting on this....
Originally Posted By pecos bill One thing that really chews me up is the insane overcompensation of people in the sports/entertainment fields who contribute little or nothing to society. Might as well throw in polititians as well. An hour of primetime devoted to Lebron James's decision on where to play ball, and the millions, if not billion he will earn for such a monumental gift to society. We are a nation of idol worshipping idiots, and just like on the Titanic, the band plays on!
Originally Posted By Labuda "An hour of primetime devoted to Lebron James's decision on where to play ball, and the millions, if not billion he will earn for such a monumental gift to society." At least he made sure all the ad money for that went to a charity.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Just to clarify, the salaries I quotes are in Larimer County, Colorado>> For some reason I thought you were from the East Bay area. My mistake. Even so, teacher's salaries in Southern California are still borderline poverty for the region's cost of living.
