Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'm glad you brought that up DVC because I have heard similar talk from the NRA community. It is pretty prevalent in the northern part of Florida. It doesn't matter how many people want to take out a President...on either side of the fence. A President is under threat before he/she makes one executive decision. What matters is if one acts on that threat. Obama might have greater concerns overseas than here at home. While the US hostage incident with the pirates ended positively from our perspective he may have a problem with the Muslim world he is trying to woo back into favor if he has to take more action against these Somali folks.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh First, I'd like to know what blogs Mr X is reading, because at the ones I peruse, the kind of talk he is claiming is shot down. The Republicans I read don't want to mirror the craziness of the extreme left wing over the last eight years. Second, the liberals who think the GOP is doomed have short memories. Just four years ago, the Democrats were in similar straits, and managed to comeback. They did this by claiming to be moderate and more ethical than the GOP. As they lurch ever leftward and their actions show they can't or won't live up to their promises, more moderates will migrate back to the GOP. Plus after a few years of liberal policies, more conservatives will realize it's better to get half of what you want than none, and also return to voting for the GOP. Third, the talk about Pres Obama being a Muslim began during the Democratic primary, and was probably mostly created by operatives of Sec Clinton. And Pres Obama has been associated with several characters with extreme views and questionable ethics, and at least one unrepentent terrorist. Fourth, the GOP doesn't have to rally around anyone right now. In time a leader will emerge. After all, who four years ago thought the Democrats would manage to rally behind a relatively inexperienced Senator with fairly extreme views, let alone convince over half the voters to elect him? Fifth, the people going to tea parties didn't agree with the Tarp plan or a lot of the spending the Bush administration agreed to, and they recognize that taxes are going to have to be raised on a lot more than those making over $250K in order to pay for all the spending the Obama adminstration is proposing. Sixth, Bernard Goldberg used to be a liberal, and I believe he is still a Democrat. Just because he spoke out against the insanity of the left doesn't mean he's a righty.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<I'm glad you brought that up DVC because I have heard similar talk from the NRA community.>>> Well this isn't NRA talk. This is my family. ...straight from the horses mouth? They are real concerns to those that have them, if that makes any sense. I have not gone out and purchased any extra anything. I have no time to hunt anymore and I fish very little. Personally, I don't think that the 2nd amendment is going to be challenged (or the interpretation of...blah blah blah) however you want to say it or spin it. I could be wrong. I think wahoo you bring up some much larger concerns for my president. I hope he is able to keep all the balls in the air. As you may know, I just returned from Egypt a couple weeks ago, first time out of the country. Not only did I see things in a whole new way, many things about how I view the US and the rest of the world changed drastically. I'm still a southern born good ol boy from Georiga and all that. But. The world is a big place. We don't realize many of us how much of a fish bowl the US really can be. So yes, I feel ya Wahoo. Our (USA) perception of right and wrong can even be skewed at times. There are much larger fish to fry than many of the things being peddled by both sides here at home. We really need more of a world view collectively as a nation and I think Obama realizes that more now than he did when he was "just a senator".
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Seventh, googling "Bush hatred" vs "Obama hatred" doesn't prove anything. It could just mean that the left is being more vocal about criticism of "their guy" than the right was. Or it could just reflect the continued growth of online content. Lastly, the guys I know aren't stacking up on ammo because they're worried Pres Obama will seize their guns; they're worried that he drastically raise taxes on it. In fact, we've already seen something along that line. It used to be that the US military would sell spent cartridges to companies that would reuse it for ammunition. It was a good deal for both parties - the recycled ammo was cheaper and the military got back some money. Now the military has been told to sell the used cartridges to scrappers, bringing in less money and raising the cost of ammo.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Well said on post 22 Doug! I'm going down to the Hannity one in Atlanta, just to see what's going to be said. I'll give a full report with photos when I get back. Again, I'm not going to shout and raise a fist and say "Hooray for our side" but I don't take the media's word for anything anymore. I want to be there, to see things for myself, to form my own opinions. Egypt really screwed me up that way.
Originally Posted By ecdc At this point, I think the moral equivalency between the two sides is inaccurate. It's easy to say, "Well there's crazies on both sides," and of course that's true. But it takes more effort to examine the depth, the manner of communication, the reasons for the anger, etc. I loathed George W. Bush. I despised the man. I consider him one of the worst three or four Presidents we've ever had. BTW, I also voted for him in 2000. I couldn't stand him for taking the good-will we'd generated after 9/11 and squandering it. I can't stand him for going into Iraq when it had nothing whatsoever to do with the war on terrorism and for screwing up our chances at getting bin Laden. I still think about 9/11 frequently. I'm still very angry about it. Bush screwed that all up. He removed competent administrators in the first months of Iraq and replaced them with 25 year old children of his biggest campaign donors. He gave no-bid contracts to Halliburton who took over many of the army's responsibilities and subsequently did a piss-poor job of running it. Bush harmed our country in more ways than most Americans can count. There's about 80 other things I could point out, but that suffices. I don't think it's fair (or frankly, very in-depth thinking) to simply say "Aw shucks, both sides are lousy." Bush was a god-awful President. Until Obama starts matching his level of incompetence, then it's not fair to compare their supporters and detractors. Now lets look at the crazies on both sides. With Obama in office, we can point to very specific, repeated actions by very popular right-wing media and commentators. We can even point to actions by Republican leaders. We have Michelle Bachmann saying our children are going to be sent to re-eduction camps under the Obama administration. When she's on Sean Hannity's show he tells her to keep up the great work and she says, "We're going to fight for our freedom" and he replies, "Fight against tyranny." There's of course the entire Rush Limbaugh debacle of the last several months that doesn't need repeating. There's Palin and the pallin' around with terrorists. There's Glen Beck and the concentration camps. There's charge after charge after charge that we're becoming "socialist." There's the Republican congressman who says he has a list of 17 socialists working in congress but he won't name them (sound familiar?) We have Fox News consistently beating CNN and MSNBC in the ratings. So what do we have on the left from specific Congressional leaders, from popular commentators, etc., that matches what's happened on the right in, what, 80 days of the Obama Presidency? And did we see anywhere near the same level of hatred of Bush in his first 80 days, before he was a complete and total failure as a President? In short, until people can start analyzing real data and analyzing the performance of both men and come up with a workable argument beyond a few anecdotal stories, I'm not buying the both sides have their crazies argument. One of these things is not like the other. One of my friends has been trying to find ammo just so he can go hunting since Obama took office. He literally cannot find a bullet to buy in the entire Salt Lake Valley. That's a story that's repeated itself over and over in news reports across the country. What's the left equivalent of that in Bush's first 80 days?
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<they're worried that he drastically raise taxes on it.>>> Yeah I've heard that too, but how many people quit smoking or stockpile cigarettes because they think taxes are going up? Now you start talking about taking ciggs off the market... Obama himself might stockpile a few. In either case, guns and ammo are NOT being bought up and stockpiled "just in case" there's a good revolution. Suggesting that is ridiculous.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<He literally cannot find a bullet to buy in the entire Salt Lake Valley. That's a story that's repeated itself over and over in news reports across the country. What's the left equivalent of that in Bush's first 80 days?>>> Well your argument suggests that the people buying up all the ammo are doing so because they are crazy or because they hate Obama. It's a fact that the military isn't selling spent metal to ammo producers anymore. This is a subtle step by Obama in SOME direction. Many people took steps to prepare for disaster in the Y2K scare. It turned out fine. Were they nuts? Not really. You go to the grocery store in the south before a supposed ice storm. People buy a lot more groceries in preparation. Our streets shut down during snow and ice. We have no equipment to clear them. Are these people crazy? You yourself save money for a rainy day. You may buy a hot Christmas item early before everyone else does this fall. Is that crazy? To say something like, "See? The right is nuts because they are buying up all the ammo in a panic, which makes them crazy extremists." Well in light of the fact that the military isn't selling metal to ammo makers anymore, no it isn't crazy at all. I am thinking about rushing out and buying a new Suburban. GM might go broke, and the prices are VERY VERY VERY LOW. I'm as crazy as the redneck hunters if your argument holds.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>. In either case, guns and ammo are NOT being bought up and stockpiled "just in case" there's a good revolution. Suggesting that is ridiculous. <<<< It may be ridiculous, but I HAVE heard this myself from my relatives. We've been told we need to get a gun for when the revolution starts too. This IS being preached to the extremists from Fox and some very extreme conservative websites.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I will in fairness however, admit that the Fox News people and Hannity are going overboard, but no more so than Charlie conducting an outright witch hunt / character assassination on Palin and masking it in a journalistic discovery interview. The reality of it is that it wouldn't have mattered WHO was in front of Charlie Gibson, he would have carried on just as he did if they were Republican. Media bias, its real and its dangerous. But it is certainly both ways. So in short, there are nuts on both sides.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad DyGDisney who of your relatives would engage in such? Really. Who? NONE of mine (and there is a hell of a lot of us) would ever do such. Not a single one I'd wager. It is offensive to claim so when a vast number of boots on the ground over engaged in war this very minute are family members of those you want to believe are stockpiling guns for a revolution.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad But I will be the first to admit, the word revolution is being over used and should not be on ANY station.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>but no more so than Charlie conducting an outright witch hunt / character assassination on Palin and masking it in a journalistic discovery interview.<< Had Palin been ready for prime time, she could have answered his questions, and those of Katie Couric, with relative ease. But because she was not, it revealed to everyone that she was simply not ready to be one heartbeat away from the presidency. Gibson was granted the first interview with a newfound media sensation. What should he have asked her, about her kids? Fun Facts about Alaska? There was no "character assasination" in that interview. When a relative unknown is seeking the second highest office in the land they ought to be available to the press for interviews. The McCain people chose her to please the base, and only the base, and it backfired mightily, probably costing them the election. And now you have some in the GOP that still see her as the hope of the GOP. Good grief. I mean, really. She gets asked what papers she reads. "All of them." That's just a stupid answer to a softball question. And if she truly reads "all of them" then her grasp of world affairs should have been a little more firmly grounded. And since team McCain thought it was brilliant to keep her bottled up and hidden away from such questions, dumb answers to dumb questions were magnified in importance.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney There are family members of mine I KNOW would engage in a revolution if Beck and Hannity spoke the word that it was time. I know this to be 100% fact. >>>It is offensive to claim so when a vast number of boots on the ground over engaged in war this very minute are family members of those you want to believe are stockpiling guns for a revolution.<<< Not sure what this means. Please explain.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<There are family members of mine I KNOW would engage in a revolution if Beck and Hannity spoke the word that it was time. I know this to be 100% fact.>> This reminds me of Orson Scott Card's novel "Empire", where liberals start a revolution top take over the country. Funny how its the right wingers who actually talk about a "Revolution". And all this talk about socialism? Where's my cushy gov't job? And free healthcare and education? Seems to me that only the very rich and the very poor get handouts these days.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Honestly, I don't know what I believe anymore. It's like I've lost my way and now I think everyone (in the media and government) is lying to me. I'm lost. And I find myself arguing for the sake of arguing. I can't afford higher taxes. I think everyone should have access to quality healthcare. I don't like handouts in a free market, but people need their jobs. We need to protect our Americans abroad, but we need to repair relations with many countries. I need to quit fussing and start thinking.
Originally Posted By mawnck This morning, a Huffpost article addresses this very topic. The whole thing is well worth reading. Here's the first part: >>We're all laughing at the right's nuttiness, especially the teabagging campaign. They say Obama isn't an American, that he is a communist, that in ten weeks he is responsible for the Bush deficit, that he is planning to put everyone in concentration camps, that he is going to replace the dollar with a world currency, that he is gutting the military... And he has only been in office ten weeks. In fact they're back to being as crazy and paranoid as they were when Clinton was President. Remember the accusations that Clinton and Hillary were murderers, that Hillary personally killed Vince Foster, that Clinton ran a drug-smuggling operation out of an airstrip, that he was looking through FBI files, that he fired the travel office to put a cousin in, that he "sold" plots in Arlington cemetery, that he held up runway traffic to get a $500 haircut, that he used cocaine in the White House, that he hung obscene ornaments on the White House Christmas tree and the other fabrications that came daily? We laughed then, too, and how did that work out? They took over the Presidency, the House and the Senate.<< <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-johnson/take-the-right-seriously_b_186245.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...245.html</a>
Originally Posted By DAR Once again neither the Republican, Democrats, Conservatives or Liberals have any type of monopoly on loonies, nutjobs, freaks or people who are plain Bat-crap crazy. If you somehow believe that your party or personal belief system is immune to such, either take off your blinders or at the very least loosen them up.
