Originally Posted By barboy2 ///I would hope that this isn't directed at me, considering I'm one of the least lenient people when it comes to(neglect/poorly maintained parks)/// Nope, it's not directed at you since you come across as one who appreciates quality But if you're a big time decision maker(I'm not talking about a shift supervisor here but a CM with widespread clout and authority) and thar be pirates a missin' or good folk not seein' opossums on the wildest ride in the wilderness then I would lay some blame on you.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<But if you're a big time decision maker(I'm not talking about a shift supervisor here but a CM with widespread clout and authority) and thar be pirates a missin' or good folk not seein' opossums on the wildest ride in the wilderness then I would lay some blame on you. >> Oh trust me, if I had any clout, I'd be knocking some doors down, haha.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>But if you're a big time decision maker(I'm not talking about a shift supervisor here but a CM with widespread clout and authority) and thar be pirates a missin' or good folk not seein' opossums on the wildest ride in the wilderness then I would lay some blame on you.<<< My bet is, is that CMs that have that authority, don't even know the Disney quality that we know. How long has Traditions been cut now? They don't even train their CMs the right way anymore.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> How long has Traditions been cut now? They don't even train their CMs the right way anymore. << Do you mean Traditions have been scaled back? Or that it's been axed altogether?
Originally Posted By sjhym33 Traditions began as a 2 day class from WDW's opening till at least the mid 80's. They used to buy lunch for you the first day and Traditions included a bus tour of the property and I remember going into the MK and EPCOT. The second day was more classroom time and then your area picked you up and you got a tour of your area, met supervisors, got a costume, got your schedule and was shown where to report on your next day of work. At some point it was turned into a one day class that today includes company history, company values, a union presentation and ends will a class in signing into the Hub. No tour, no free lunch, no meeting your managers. You are given direction on how to get to the Cast Center of your work place and you are told someone will meet you there the first day of work.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Exactly what sjhym said. The question is, what was the last generation of CMs to get that training? When will those CMs die out?
Originally Posted By sjhym33 Many of them are long gone. There are very few CM's left from the early 70's. Many of them got promoted up thru the years and eventually got bought out or "retired". There are some still around. There is one guy who was in Fantastyland on opening day and he is still working there today. There a couple of guys in transportation who have been there since the late 70's/early 80's. Many original old time CM's have just moved on. They took their Disney knowledge and moved into other fields. Some got discouraged as the company changed and changed careers. Those of us who were pre and even post EPCOT Disney remember that Disney as one big family. It seemed like you knew everyone. That is no longer the case. When I was in the MK in the early 80's I knew just about every manager in every dept at the park. The vp of the park knew my name and always asked about my wife by name. Most of the people I worked with was there because they wanted to be there and part of the magic that was Disney. That is no longer the case. Today you have a mix of people who have been around and it is just a job. Some college kids looking to have some fun while away from school for several months. People who needed a job but are looking to get out when something better comes along and some bright eyed Disney fans who many times find the pixie dust wears off after awhile. Every once in a while you come across someone who truly has some pixie dust and they remind me of the good old days when that was the norm.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Goodness knows what will happen once the GOOD CMs of Disney that know of the real way of doing things, will be gone.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Agreed, but guests (and discussion board posters) that accept the lack of real maintenance and call WDW magical etc. and send flammage at critics for pointing it out are a huge part of the problem too.>> I think ... NO, I KNOW that fans are a huge part of why WDW is in the shape it is. And, rest assured, that's just how TDO, The Weatherman, Rasulo and Staggs like it. You dumb the product down. You condition guests to expect a Walmarted version as somehow being the same or better than what you offered for decades (and built an amazing reputation on). And then ... then you actively co-opt the online bloggers ... the so-called 'social media' who will dance like a cheap stripper on a pole for a free pin and who would gladly get on their knees (metaphorically, of course) if you actually invited them to a 'private' party/whorefest with free food/booze/swag. Do you get the idea that my pixie dust high from the cruise has passed? If WDW didn't kill that buzz ... hearing about Iger trying to take the Sherman Bros out of WoC pounded a nail ... and then having to sit thru so many extra commercials during last night's Lost finale (although Target's were ... well, on target) pounded another. So ... anyone in the mood for a scrum?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Yepp. I have a dirty love for MSEP. ;-)>> But it's your fanboi worship of syruppy Wishes and your lack of understanding about the importance of trees and shrubs that worry me more ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >...but guests (and discussion board posters) that accept the lack of real maintenance and call WDW magical etc. and send flammage at critics for pointing it out are a huge part of the problem too.< <<But there's a middle ground to be held, and I think a lot of posters on this site go way over to the extreme of needing to point out every little problem as another huge item on the list of why Disney isn't magical any more. Look, I can totally enjoy my time in the MK while I can also acknowledge the problems and wish Disney would fix 'em. But I'm not going to boycot the place because I saw a full trashcan. >> Danny, doncha think that maybe that response above is a bit over the top hyperbole? I could just call it bull$hit, but I am trying to be nice. I don't know anyone here who has ever advocated boycotting WDW, let alone over a full trashcan. I saw a lot of good things on my recent visit. BUt show quality is really at an all-time low across property ... from PoC to Soarin to EE to Fantasmic ... signature attractions are just not seeing any love from management. Totally unacceptable. But hey ... here's an APP that will let you find your favorite princess! <<Everyone has their own threshold, and while you have reached yours, dave, I'm nowhere near mine. So for someone to call me contemptible is way WAY over the line here. I'm not living with rose colored glasses on, nor am I an apologist or a defender of mediocrity (how I HATE that term!). But I'm not going to go into spasms of hatred every time I see a bit of trash on the ground. Do I wish Disney would do better on maintenance and refurbs on their parks? Of course. Am I going to let that get in the way of my enjoyment of the parks? Absolutely not!>> Personally, I love the DoM label. Because I see that in daily life. Our health system 'It may not be perfect, but it's the best we can do' or 'It's better than anyone else's' ... just an example, I could go on about Wall Street or the oil disaster in the gulf etc. When people accept far less than they should and act like sheep, they hurt ALL of us. A piece of trash on the ground doesn't ruin a visit for me. But attractions where you run out of fingers and need to borrow a friend's hand when counting the number of effects not working on something ... that may not 'ruin' a visit, but it sure takes away from one. And show quality in Orlando is horrendous compared to any/all Disney resorts worldwide. None have the constant issues with neglect and things plain not working that WDW does. I'm not making excuses for managers and execs that need to be sent packing.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You'll never find such magical restrooms as you will at WDW. They make your average Exxon restroom look pitiful by comparison.>> I love the Pioneer Hall restrooms myself. They are always cold and clean and a very peaceful place to take care of business. <<And don't even get me started on the beauty of construction walls. To see them, it's almost like visiting the Sistine Chapel. No, strike the *almost*. It is a holy experience.>> It certainly is if you're a bored jobless housewife. Good thing we will have walls for years now!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Leo you need to find another passion. You caused A Happy Haunt to dream about another LP poster doing his business in a Disney Store bathroom. Way too much time spent on LP girl. >> I think Leo's bathroom humor isn't your average potty crap! But speaking of Disney Stores, as an adult I guess a restroom (not that any have public facilities) would be the only thing to visit for. If you take a look down on one of the 'ignored' boards here ... Merchandise maybe or Business ... you'll see a thread on the latest (this would be concept 421) 'new' look for the chain and the head of North America is quoted saying something to the affect of 'we want these stores to be the most important 30 minutes in a day for an eight-year-old' ... so apparently they are going to spend millions on another new look and forget why they were successful and then why they stopped. Catering to young children isn't going to turn around this flailing chain. Disney is NOT just for young kids. Does Iger even get this?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> hearing about Iger trying to take the Sherman Bros out of WoC pounded a nail ..<<< Did my mentioning that put a damper in the last meeting? You didn't react too strongly....
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> <<Yepp. I have a dirty love for MSEP. ;-)>> But it's your fanboi worship of syruppy Wishes and your lack of understanding about the importance of trees and shrubs that worry me more ...<<<< I need pictorial proof!!!! Next meeting. ;-) (((((you do realize that I adore trees and shrubs to death, think that they need more in the parks, and think that though Wishes is nice, they could do better, and I just like watching people freak out about these funny little quirks?!?? ;-) )))))
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Did my mentioning that put a damper in the last meeting? You didn't react too strongly....>> No. I had read something in the NY Times that suggested that. And I am not at all surprised. This is a tech geek running the company. He isn't interested in telling compelling stories. He's interested in how many platforms he can splash across the 'brand's' latest franchise. I wish he'd take his money and 2/3rds of his exec team and leave ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 (((((you do realize that I adore trees and shrubs to death, think that they need more in the parks, and think that though Wishes is nice, they could do better, and I just like watching people freak out about these funny little quirks?!?? ;-) ))))) I dunno ... I have this vision of you with a lanyard around your neck and Mickey tee (or maybe Tink), clutching a Figment plush and having tears stream down your cheeks as the moppets sing ...
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>> Catering to young children isn't going to turn around this flailing chain. Disney is NOT just for young kids. Does Iger even get this?<<<< I wonder when Disney will get back to the idea that adults spend the money? Probably be about the same time EPCOT will be considered "boring" again. In all honesty, that would be nice. It would mean that Disney dared enough to create attractions that aren't generic, aren't for every bumpkin that visits the parks, and would be DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER ATTRACTIONS AND MARKETING IN WDW. Different is good...even if it means it drives SOME guests away from the park. You can't get them all anyway. You can recapture them at the it the parks. Works for me... Notice how many times I've been to MGM versus EPCOT.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> I dunno ... I have this vision of you with a lanyard around your neck and Mickey tee (or maybe Tink), clutching a Figment plush and having tears stream down your cheeks as the moppets sing ...<<< How'd you know? Nah, though "emotional", Wishes doesn't do that to me. It gets me that nice, warm, "This is DISNEY" feeling, but not full blown tears. Only thing that does that is the American Adventure, and the Peace on Earth finale to RoE. Violin solo, Cronkite, and saying "Peace in Earth" in foreign languages gets me. Dunno why. But iit does. I admit it. *waits to see how this will be used by the Spirit*
