Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer *and ruined illusion. And BTW...The speeders will recieve modifications for ST2.0
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Where once was a bring, boring and boring experience>> Fixed. Sorry, you know I loved EPCOT Center, but TLS was sooooo boring. And yes, something else rather than Nemo could have been done to fix that, but still, they did a great job with the fish.
Originally Posted By WDWFigment In regards to those 4-5 hour waits during the time it opened, didn't much of Future World have extremely long waits when the park opened? I've seen pictures of JII with lines way out the door. As an omnimover attraction, it seems like that'd be a rarity. Now I know you can make the argument that the quality of JII was a lot higher then than it is now (obviously that's true), but couldn't those long lines be indicative of capacity differences at the park between then and now (but even as I write this, I think the park had roughly the same capacity then...so I don't know how to explain that). In any case, I don't think Body Wars simulator plus a new film and some updated effects would equal hour plus lines. I think that pavilion would have to be redone from the ground up. I will also agree with whomever made the comment that it was a departure from the other pavilions in FW. That can be seen even today. It was the perfect location for a convention style setup because its previous setup had been very convention-esque. Not saying I didn't like the pavilion (in fact, I loved it), but it didn't have the same "feel" as the other pavilions.
Originally Posted By MPierce Both Nemo, and Turtle Talk were designed to draw kids, and their parents into the LS. Don't you think WDW needs more kid friendly attractions.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<I've seen pictures of JII with lines way out the door. As an omnimover attraction, it seems like that'd be a rarity.>> I remember being in those lines. And I remember hour long lines for World of Motion, The Land, and even The Living Seas! Ah - those were the days! One thing that might explain the difference now is in the number of theme parks at Disney. Back then, you only had Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center as your choice - I think the addition of two more theme parks has spread the crowds a bit.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Both Nemo, and Turtle Talk were designed to draw kids, and their parents into the LS.>> You know, I remember a lot of kids being in there even before Nemo, so I'm not really sure the addition has really drawn in that many more people. Heck, the last time I was down there, Nemo was pretty much a walk-on all day. Kids like fish and aquariums - they don't really need cartoon fish to draw them in.
Originally Posted By WDWFigment <<<<One thing that might explain the difference now is in the number of theme parks at Disney. Back then, you only had Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center as your choice - I think the addition of two more theme parks has spread the crowds a bit.>>> My first thought was that attendance must have been higher back then, but I think it is higher now (I could very well be wrong). However, the big difference, as you say, is those extra two parks. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that attendance is higher now, if the "average hours" spent at the park is lower due to park hopping etc., then this could explain away the longer lines. Put another way, attendance could be higher today, but people might only be spending 4.5 hours at the park on average, versus 9 hours on average in 1989. I'm not saying those are the exact numbers (or even close), just that could explain the lines.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Attendance was higher at Epcot before MGM and AK opened - MK too. Epcot and MK both crashed in 1992 and while MK has nearly fully recovered, Epcot has a ways to go. Epcot is around 10-11million, where it used to be 14-15million.
Originally Posted By WDWFigment <<<Attendance was higher at Epcot before MGM and AK opened - MK too. Epcot and MK both crashed in 1992 and while MK has nearly fully recovered, Epcot has a ways to go. Epcot is around 10-11million, where it used to be 14-15million.>>> So with higher attendance back then plus the (likelihood that) park hopping artificially inflates numbers over the 1980s numbers, it makes sense that attractions had much longer lines back then. I think you can easily argue the converse to Disney's (possible/likely) position that more pavilions aren't justified from an attendance perspective; that if you build it, they will come. That, of course, also assumes that you build it correctly (Mission: Space, I'm looking at you). If done poorly and internal projections aren't met, rather than just shifting the blame to the "lack of demand/attendance" maybe consider the "why" behind the lack of demand (the attraction failing to deliver substantively).
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> Sorry, you know I loved EPCOT Center, but TLS was sooooo boring. And yes, something else rather than Nemo could have been done to fix that, but still, they did a great job with the fish.<<< Opinion. We've been over this ad nauseum. I don't consider a quick fix that is unturned to the land it lies in " a great job". In fact, I think it to be mediocre.
Originally Posted By MPierce >>> Sorry, you know I loved EPCOT Center, but TLS was sooooo boring. And yes, something else rather than Nemo could have been done to fix that, but still, they did a great job with the fish.<<< >> Opinion. We've been over this ad nauseum. I don't consider a quick fix that is unturned to the land it lies in " a great job". In fact, I think it to be mediocre. << Epcot has clearly decided to go down a different path vs. the original EPCOT Center. If it is a wiser path will be established years from now. Fans of the original EPCOT Center will never be completely happy with the new Epcot.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Fans of the original EPCOT Center will never be completely happy with the new Epcot.>> I'd be completely happy if Imagination wasn't a mess. Everything else is great.
Originally Posted By mousermerf I'm not a fan of building-over versus adding especially since they have the space, and I'm not talking about destroying the gardens or anything. They designed the park with space for expansion. Wonders shouldn't sit empty, Horizons didn't have to be torn down, they don't use an entire quadrant of Communicore, etc.. I'd say my two biggest Epcot peeves are Imagination and Wonders, followed by M:S and the unused communicore space. I'm very happy that they finally made the Fountainview into an ice cream shop - which seems to have gotten it the foot traffic it needed. For a long time (prior to the Wonders shut down) that was my blight/pet peeve complaint. I don't think Seas was the perfect solution, but it got people into the building and reintroduced the ride - the original was pretty but god awful boring. I'd have been much happier if the tank had gotten some TLC instead of mostly ignored.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Think of it this way - as a big Epcot fan I used to go in the exit of Seas to visit the tank and exhibits. I'd hitch a ride on a returning hydrolator from the exit. With the new version, I never feel compelled to sneak in the back unless there's a big line out front.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Epcot has clearly decided to go down a different path vs. the original EPCOT Center. If it is a wiser path will be established years from now. Fans of the original EPCOT Center will never be completely happy with the new Epcot.<<< False, good sir. I am very happy with the current EPCOT. It mostly works. The only thing I want from it now is to be as grand and cohesive as it once was, and in that, certain things like Nemo and TT need to go. Those are my two Pet Peeves, anyway. The rest are just little issues, and mostly aesthetic.
