Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<I believe in the principles upon which this nation is founded, Beau. I believed in them enough to put my life on the line for them in military service. You go ahead and worry about staying alive. I'll worry about civil rights and the Constitution.>> That was a pretty speech Tom, but what civil rights have we lost again? What part of the constitution is being trampled on again?? The left and their hyterics combined with their refusal to defend the country is why they are out of power. Do you libs ever ask yourself why you lose and have a reputation as being weak and limp wristed when it comes to national defense? Tom, you really think the best plan against a massive attack, an attack that could kill a million people is to make sure we worried about peoples civil rights even if that means the Muslim scumbag terrorists get to attack us? That's what your saying.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<"Sad I have to spell this little piece of reality out to a fellow Bush voter." We have nothing in common. Nothing.>> Really?? No Kidding?? Your a liberal who uses Michael Moore - Saddam talking points. Your right, I have nothing in common with that. but thanks for voting for Bush anyway after you had 2 years to see how Iraq went.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>but what civil rights have we lost again? What part of the constitution is being trampled on again??<< The first, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth, and fiteenth amendments are all being threatened. The president doesn't think he is bound by the law of the land.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Do you libs ever ask yourself why you lose and have a reputation as being weak and limp wristed when it comes to national defense?<< I'm not as concerned with winning as you are Beau. I'm more concerned about being on the moral and ethical side of an issue. >>Tom, you really think the best plan against a massive attack, an attack that could kill a million people is to make sure we worried about peoples civil rights even if that means the Muslim scumbag terrorists get to attack us?<< Protecting civil rights and preventing terrorist attacks are not mutually exclusive. You can do both, and to insist that you can't is just cowardice.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Do you notice that some of our GOPers lately are finding themselves arguing AGAINST the constitution and civil rights? All in an effort to justify the actions of the bush administration. Kinda telling.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh It would if it was true, but it's not. We're not arguing against the Constitution or civil rights, merely your extreme interpretation of them.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>I'm not as concerned with winning as you are Beau. I'm more concerned about being on the moral and ethical side of an issue. << *Applause* VERY well said! Funny...this is just what the Republicans USED TO BE about. Now it's all about winning and looking macho.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I'm not as concerned with winning as you are Beau. I'm more concerned about being on the moral and ethical side of an issue. > Looks like Tom would "rather be right than President." The President, on the other hand...
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << I'm not as concerned with winning as you are Beau. I'm more concerned about being on the moral and ethical side of an issue. >> Exactly my point. While you are trying to make YOURSELF feel good about some moral code of conduct, the adults in charge of the country are busy protecting us from being killed. Your attitude is one of dismissal and ingorance to the threat that Muslims are flat out telling us is coming. When Bin Laden says he is planning his next big attack and the left can only yawn and head out to the local bath house, we know who is not serious and who needs to be kept from power in this country. So far the public has done just this. This... is why you guys will never win another national election for generations to come and the military has a negative view of liberals.
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Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Exactly my point. While you are trying to make YOURSELF feel good about some moral code of conduct, the adults in charge of the country are busy protecting us from being killed.<< Beau, what I'm trying to do is live by the creeds that I say I follow, instead of throwing them aside at the first sign of adversity. And it doesn't always make me feel good, as you accuse. They've actually cost me quite a bit, but since I have made vows and oaths to do certain things I don't believe I can reject that just because I'm a little frightened or uncomfortable. Beau, you're a Christian. Never forget that we've already won. Nothing that happens here on earth can change the victory that Christ won on the cross.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy cmpaley, your very confused about how Jesus would handle evil... very confused. There is a reason the Christians in this country vote for Republicans by HUGE margins. You might want to figure that one out and get away from your Star Trk DVD's.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>This... is why you guys will never win another national election for generations to come and the military has a negative view of liberals.<< It's not just about winning elections or the affections of the military, Beau.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Beau, what I'm trying to do is live by the creeds that I say I follow, instead of throwing them aside at the first sign of adversity.>> In a way I respect what you are saying. but I find it naive and childish when you consider what we are facing in todays world. FDR and Lincoln prove that your approach is wrong.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<It's not just about winning elections or the affections of the military, Beau.>> Who we elect and the actions of the military are key to keeping us safe and prosperous. We have Al Gore , a guy who almost was president in SAudi Arabia, during a war, during Muslim riots, telling people who evil America is. You can't see how differnt the world would be if this idiot was elected? Al Quaida and Radical Islam is here. The appeasment card only gets people killed and it causes countires to be lost. France is a great example of this as they are now being told that French culture is no longer allowed because Allah wouldn't like it. You want that here?
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>In a way I respect what you are saying. but I find it naive and childish when you consider what we are facing in todays world.<< I think our greatest enemies are intolerance and fear. We're all going to die, whether it's from a terrorist attack or a car wreck or a hunting trip with the VP. We might as well live our life so it means something. I'll die defending the Constitution or trying to help others, given the choice.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Al Quaida and Radical Islam is here. The appeasment card only gets people killed and it causes countires to be lost.<< I've never said anything about appeasement.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>cmpaley, your very confused about how Jesus would handle evil... very confused.<< Um...I don't think so. St. Paul, one of the APOSTLES tells us how to oversome evil: Rom. 12:21 "Do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good." Further, Jesus, in the beatitudes (you know, the first part of the Sermon on the Mount) tell us: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matt. 5:3-12 >>There is a reason the Christians in this country vote for Republicans by HUGE margins.<< Yeah, because they say all the things the fundamentalists want to hear. >>You might want to figure that one out and get away from your Star Trk DVD's.<< That's a personal attack that I'm going to let slide. But be assured, it IS a personal attack and demonstrates the weakness of your position.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Problem is Tom, no Constitution violations have occured. Hey, if you want to die a young death just so you can say you kept to some moral standard, fine. Me, I want to kill any and all terrorists and defend the country from Islamic invaders... so I can keep going to Disneyland and finally see the next E ticket ride!!!!!! Come on wake up!!! If your dead you won't get to see the new submarine lagoon attraction. But don't you think it's ironic that the dems lost the last election because they didn't have moral values according to the voters?
