Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >>To go back to the original topic of discussion.<< "Must we? See that sludge on the road? It used to be a dead horse, but it's been beaten so much, you can't even tell it was an animal at one time." Man, no kidding.
Originally Posted By DlandDug Some Trims 'n Ends... >>If I had to narrow it down to a single moment where the jumped the shark, I'd probably say the Sun Wheel/Fun Wheel conversion. It cost a ton of money, added nothing to the experience, and was marketed at full hilt.<< Don't really recall any "full hilt" marketing of Mickey's Fun Wheel. I know I like it a lot-- makes the wheel look like a big toy. Besides, it wasn't just a matter of slapping a Mickey face on the side. The entire lighting system was being upgraded-- and that was more than worth it for what they got. >>I mean DCA has yet to have any ride with that kind of return...<< I must disagree. Soarin' and Screamin' have always enjoyed great popularity. More recently, Toy Story Midway Mania has sustained very large crowds. >>Does anyone know if it still turns? The last time I was there it just sat there.<< They just refurbed the Condor Flats sign and it now spins a full 360 degree. But why...? >>Universal's "Waterworld" show was enjoyed for many years (is it still going?)...<< You bet! I imagine by this time there's a whole generation of kids who wonder why Uni hasn't made a movie based on that cool attraction...
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA >>Does anyone know if it still turns? The last time I was there it just sat there.<< They just refurbed the Condor Flats sign and it now spins a full 360 degree. But why...?> It's a radar. It's searching for imagination left in the world.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA >>Does anyone know if it still turns? The last time I was there it just sat there.<< They just refurbed the Condor Flats sign and it now spins a full 360 degree. But why...?> It's a radar. It's searching for imagination left in the world.
Originally Posted By DlandDug As to the question of whether $1 billion will save DCA, the short answer is... No. But $1 billion spent well will. In fact, it's already started to do so. The opening of World of Color marks the definitive turning point for DCA. Previous efforts, which were scatter shot, did not manage to turn around this failing theme park. World of Color, hard on the heels of TSMM, seems to have finally done the trick. I believe that when the final components are in place next year that DCA will (finally) be accepted as a fully "themed" theme park. There is, of course, always room for improvement and expansion, but with Buena Vista Street and Carsland finished, DCA will no longer carry the onus that it's 2001 first impression created.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt They just refurbed the Condor Flats sign and it now spins a full 360 degree. But why...?> "It's a radar. It's searching for imagination left in the world." LOL.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Don't they know that the last of that stuff disappeared in late 2004, when they gilded the last castle turret gold for the 50th? There hasn't been any left for quite a while now.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 You can't "save" a theme park unless it's in imminent danger of closing, which was never the case here. Can one billion greatly improve it? Why yes. Yes it can.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>You can't "save" a theme park unless it's in imminent danger of closing, which was never the case here.<< Ah, but it was...! And I "know" this is true just as surely as you "know" it is not true.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Ah, but it was...! And I "know" this is true just as surely as you "know" it is not true" Let's get real. No way.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<Let's get real. No way.>> No, they wouldn't have shuttered DCA for lack of attendance. But they sure came close, in a way, by having reduced hours of operation. In my opinion, those reduced hours of operations sealed the fate for DCA. I don't believe that Disneyland would have been able to sustain the massive and immediate spike in attendance every day as DCA closed at 6:00pm. Even if it was only a few thousand guests, the spike certainly must have played havoc with D/L operations, CM scheduling, food service, etc. Just based on that scenario alone, I would imagine that two possible decisions were floated around the war room. Kill DCA now until a time that the economy improves and go back to a one park resort or slam a bunch of money into it now and take their chances on the economy as is. No matter what, I'm glad that they made the decision that they did.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "But they sure came close, in a way, by having reduced hours of operation." Oh yeah, those two things are sooooo close to being the same.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<Oh yeah, those two things are sooooo close to being the same.>> Closing earlier than D/L was not part of DCA's original plan of operations. Having to close earlier had both short and long range implications.
Originally Posted By dshyates Not to mention that they seriously considered making it part of Disneyland and not a seperate gate.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I've always believed that much of the negative talk here about DCA's overall performance needed some perspective. The single biggest piece of proof that none of the ideas rumored to have been tossed around by Disney about what to do with DCA were serious is the fact that the company ultimately chose to reinvest $1 billion dollars to dramatically expand and improve the place. A park on the verge of being shuttered or having its operation merged into DL wouldn't necessarily be considered worth dumping more money in. Corporations and investors are generally not known to just toss money at things and cross their fingers and toes in hopes the investments will magically turn into profits. So obviously there had to be a strong belief within the organization that DCA and the DLR was falling short of their potential.
Originally Posted By dshyates Hans, what other choice did they have but to dump a Billion and a half into fixing the place. It was either fix it or close it. And the Disney Co. wasn't about to have a shuttered park in the old DL parking lot. And a huge chunk of that $1.5 Billion wasn't adding stuff. They spent a ton of money deconstructing/reconstructing DCA 1.0.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I think it's interesting how few actual additions are coming out of the redo. 'New' Attractions: Mickey's Fun Wheel Silly Symphony Swings The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure (catchy name!) Goofy's Sky School Red car trolley Luigi's Flying Tires Mater's Junkyard Spin Radiator Springs Racers Blue Sky Cellar Ghiradelli chocolate factory?? Removed Attractions: Golden Dreams Seasons of the Vine Sun Wheel Orange Stinger Maliboomer Mullholland Madness Mission Tortilla Factory That makes a net addition of 3 attractions for $1.2 billion. Some additions, like World of Color, are also a part of this transformation, but aren't really attractions, per se; Toy Story Midway Mania has often been billed as part of this expansion, but was already well into the design stages (or even construction?) when the makeover was announced. There are also many areas with new and enhanced theming, where it's easier to spend a little more time (like the PP restuarants and Buena Vista Street), but are also not really attractions. While I agree that they needed to do something about the park's aesthetics, I'm still concerned that it just doesn't have enough capacity for a full-day visit. The park will offer little more substance after this is complete, which was always a big complaint of visitors. Yes, I think most people would be more satisfied to spend 2 hours waiting for RSR than Golden Dreams, but any single attraction can only fill up a certain amount of your visit. I have no doubt that much of the park will be far more beautiful once all this is done. However, there are enough places that are getting skipped over (PP shops, Condor Flats, Hollywood Pictures Backlot, etc), and just little-enough substance that I'm still worried it won't be enough to overcome it's reputation. It will always be a second place park at DLR, but it seems like they're adding a lot investment in the park that they're hoping will last them a long time, without really doing much to add to the park's attraction capacity.
