Originally Posted By Mr X ***every time I think I understand Japanese society (and pop culture in particular) something crops up that makes me scratch my head and say "eh?".*** One thing is for certain, Japanese really dig stuff that wasn't made in Japan. So as far as that goes, Disney was destined to be a smash hit. The fact that OLC is presumtuous enough to think they can create "the next cool thing" in Japan, coming FROM Japan, is kind of foolish if you ask me. Right now guys wearing Blue Paint are way hip in Tokyo. And you can bet the next thing will also be some sort of an import. If OLC was really smart, they'd float their ideas abroad FIRST and then bring them back to Japan after some measure of success. My 2 yen, anyway.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Never seen Camp Nepos, but seems lame as hell from everything I've heard.>> It finally closed in May. <<Well, as you know I dig Ikspiari for what it's worth (a good local hang for dinner and a movie where none existed before), so I'll not comment. >> Architecturally it is a diaster - terrible navigation and circulation issues but that is what happens when you try to shoehorn a structure into a space and let the footprint dictate the space. They made some fairly fundamental flaws in the design that no respecting architect would make. And they are stuck with a structure that has one of the worst tenant turnover rates in the Tokyo Metropolitan Area. I could drone on for hours about how much I hate Ikspiari.
Originally Posted By Supermatt70 <<Don't think so - it is still the number one rated attraction in the park. It is also the most popular FP too (although we know that will change next January!).>> Does this mean that Monsters might be open in January?
Originally Posted By leemac <<Does this mean that Monsters might be open in January? >> That is the current target date. The attraction is installed and pretty much finished. OLC are opting to delay the completion of the exterior so guests won't ask why a completed attraction isn't open yet.
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara I'll have to differ with Lee: I greatly enjoy Ikspiari and much prefer it to Disney Village in Paris and either Downtown Disney in the US. More genuinely good restaurants, interesting shopping, and so on. However, I'm not their target audience because I'm an American. The layout is chaos--it's impossible to figure out where the hell you are and find anything else until you've been there half a dozen times. But, I find that to be one of its charms--I'm always finding new stores I haven't seen before.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan I agree with Mara. I find Ikspiari to be a more upscale version of either Disney Village or the Downtown Disneys.
Originally Posted By Mr X I love Ikspiari myself, I don't understand the issue I guess. But I'm no architect, and if it's true that there's a huge comparative turnover, then I guess it was built badly. Just for the simple fact that it had the first cinemaplex in Urayasu, coupled with at least doubling the local dining options, well that works fine for me (throw in some decent shopping too thanks to Gap, Eddie Bauer, etc...plus I like those little specialty stores in the back too).
Originally Posted By TokyoSweets Another Ikspiari fan here! The layout makes it a pain to find things but we love shopping and eating there. It certainly beats Shoppers Plaza and Mona!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***The layout makes it a pain to find things*** I guess this is Lee's biggest complaint, and it's certainly a valid one. Doesn't bother me, though, cause I don't usually go in there to "find things", I just stroll. Kinda makes it cool to turn a corner and find a whole new zone (although I've been there so often at this point, I pretty much know where everything is).
Originally Posted By leemac <<More genuinely good restaurants, interesting shopping, and so on. However, I'm not their target audience because I'm an American.>> I won't disagree on the restaurants - although I do prefer the area around Shoppers Plaza. I'm surprised by your comments on the stores though, Mara. I just don't see having chains like Gap, Diesel and Levi (and previously ones like J Crew who couldn't survive there) a decent selling point. It just feels like a chaotic market these days with all the outside vendors on the pathways. <<The layout is chaos--it's impossible to figure out where the hell you are and find anything else until you've been there half a dozen times. But, I find that to be one of its charms--I'm always finding new stores I haven't seen before.>> I guess if you see it as an experience of discovery then that would work. For me I'm usually in a hurry and just want to find something - I don't need to try and work out why Level 3 on one side can't access Level 3 on the other. It is just a waste of valuable real estate. Hopefully they will do something with the Camp Nepos building but if what I'm hearing is right then they have totally lost it.
Originally Posted By TokyoSweets Isn't there going to be a fresh market in the mornings at Ikspiari soon? When does that start?
Originally Posted By Mr X Eh? That sounds cool. I remember Planet Hollywood used to do a breakfast buffet (pretty cheap and decent considering how difficult it is to find a decent breakfast in this country), which I only managed to visit once or twice, but which was the most bizarre situation because Ikspiari didn't "officially" open until 10am...so you had to jump barriers and feel like a trespasser just to get there! (once on my way out I got a security lecture along the lines of "WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE!?", and I pointed back to PH and said "eating breakfast"...he apologized and escorted me back to the security gate to kick me out. Weird place, that's for sure. I wouldn't argue that point. So by "lost it" on Nepos you're saying they have nothing but terrible ideas on how to use the space? Yikes.
Originally Posted By barboy ///In fact the only clone I can think of being built in recent years is Indy/// IJ is not a clone. The elaborate queue differs dramatically from Dl Anaheim's. Crystal Skull offers different show scenes. Crystal Skull's ride vehicles feel more deliberate and smooth and its audio sounds more crisp.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Don't see how Crush would fit in American Waterfront though./// I agree with you Fan ///Well you are onboard a ship - that happens to be capable of whale-watching....I'm sure you get the point./// OK, this is growing more asinine by the minute here: Crush lives in in the South Pacific in AUSRALIAN waters.... American Waterfront is in the US northeast seaboard as in NORTH AMERICA I don't get it at all since the two themes are found in different continents! If they insist on character infusion for Am. Water. then why not secure the rights for Fievel and his American Tail
Originally Posted By barboy Lee, I'm not saying that you're sounding asinine I just question whoever is behind this flagrant thematic incongruence. Am. Waterfront represents northeast US not 'down under'---- we're talking Billie Joel/Simon & Garf. not Men at Work/Olivia Newton John.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Lee, I'm not saying that you're sounding asinine I just question whoever is behind this flagrant thematic incongruence.>> LOL. I've been called worse. It seems like a gradual erosion of the TDS' thematic bedrock to me. First came a bevvy of special events - virtually none of which had anything to do with an aquatic theme (and when they did - Aladdin's Whole New World and Ariel's Seaside Treasures - they tanked with guests despite featuring characters that actually belong in TDS). Now we are seeing characters that don't "belong" in TDS - which is odd considering that they have introduced characters that "fit" like Bernard and Bianca (American Waterfront), Hercules and Megara (Mediterranean Harbor) and Pocahontas and Meeko (that one is a stretch). But then we have Duffy who is shoehorned into Cape Cod and characters that are there because they are universally popular - think Alice, Peter Pan etc. Next comes for the first introduction of the Living Characters Program to TDR. After that - potential a couple of attractions that don't thematic fit. It is an tremendous irony to me that WDI deliberately took the template for a Magic Kingdom and created TDS to try and reach a new audience (beyond the teenager girls and office ladies). Ultimately that didn't work - so gradually the special events (think Delicious Days, Spring Festival etc.), merchandise, food and now attractions are starting to mirror TDL's feminine focus. You might call it a smart business move - TDL is hugely successful after all but it is a fine line between having two distinct offerings (think MK and Epcot) and two homogenized products.
Originally Posted By leemac <<So by "lost it" on Nepos you're saying they have nothing but terrible ideas on how to use the space? >> As Disney isn't involved in the re-purposing of that space I'm not 100% sure what is the current plan - however I had heard that a state agency that is all over Japan was the most likely tenant. You can probably guess. Ikspiari just can't hold on to tenants which is the problem. I believe that is entirely down to the design - the circulation is so out of whack that there are numerous "dead spaces" or cul-de-sacs. No retailer or restaurateur wants to be there. There is a reason why most malls these days (that are successful) are built on a circular format with "anchors" as it encourages people to see everything and draws people to the dead ends - Ikspiari has no draw except for The Disney Store which has the prime location. A smart planner would have put them in the worst unit as they will always attract guests. The problem is who is your audience? Arguably few guests will leave the parks during the day so does that mean locals are your target? When you are competing against Shoppers Plaza and central Tokyo? Can you get guests to visit during the day (but risk losing F&B revenue within the berm)? DLR's DtD is perfect - Disneyland has never had upscale dining so there are plenty of options there that won't cannibalize the parks (even if you have one group - Patina - virtually as a monopoly) and you have retail offerings that are either unique, unusual or tourist-driven. I despise Anne Geddes as an "artist" but it is a big honor for DtD to have her retail store there. This is exactly the formula that Rick Caruso has used at The Grove (which I don't like) and Americana (which I find okay) - particularly with the latter where he has a host of unique/rare offerings like Martin + OSA, Gilly Hicks (a new A&F brand), crewcuts (J Crew for kids), Kate Spade etc. He just didn't get the dining mix right. You need a draw for any complex - unless you have the foot traffic that DLR benefits from - any mall would love to have thousands of guests being dumped right on their periphery. Having Maihama station before the complex is a disaster - most guests won't go into Ikspiari - especially when they have the main entrance open and dump Resort Line guests straight into the plaza in front of the defunct Camp Nepos. You arrive on JR and what are the options - right to TDL and left to Resort Line and TDS - there is little need to go through Ikspiari.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< You arrive on JR and what are the options - right to TDL and left to Resort Line and TDS - there is little need to go through Ikspiari. >>> That does seem like a big mistake. Although, they do attempt to route exiting Resort Line passengers through at least part of Ikspiari at certain times of the day. It will be really interesting to see what Zed does for Ikspiari. I would think that the restaurants especially could benefit.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Does the OLC even want Philharmagic? Recent attractions haven't been clones at all. In fact the only clone I can think of being built in recent years is Indy and Jumpin' Jellyfish at TDS. Both Pooh and the upcoming Monsters Inc. are radically different from their stateside counterparts. Perhaps they just don't want clones. >>> I really don't think that whether an attraction is cloned or not is the issue. Pooh is radically different from the one at DL because OLC didn't want one that sucked and was willing to spend money, not particularly because they wanted one that was different from DL just to be different. Especially with the guest demographic at TDR (mostly locals, 96% domestic), it's almost certain that most of them visit TDR far more than they do any of the other resorts, if ever or perhaps once in a lifetime. So, I would find it very hard to believe that whether or not a new attraction is a "clone" of one found elsewhere has any bearing at all as to whether it's well received.
