Originally Posted By ecdc >>But my other expenses have increased... because of the ACA.<< No, your expenses increased because of America's for-profit healthcare industry. The ACA did not require any company to raise prices. Also, while it's popular for private companies to blame the ACA, the evidence is scant that the ACA is actually to blame. Also, let's not equate someone with cancer now being able to get treatment with well-off people paying a bit more. They aren't the same, and it's not "worse" for most people.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Could this have been sold to Congress? I think it could have." What color is the sky in your world?
Originally Posted By TeaPartyWave I must say, ECDC is the single most clueless person I have ever seen in any forum, anywhere in my life. Here we have a classic example of incredible ignorance on display. He get his radical leftist kooks elected to office. They get to do all the " great " things he wants for years on end with no real resistance from the GOP...then...as anyone who is not a total dips$it could have predicted, these policies are now imploding as is always the case with irresponsible socialism in action. Now look at him trying to spin the ass kicking as something other than total epic leftist failure. I guess all that time with the fellas in the bath house warps a guys ability to think.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip My point, which you missed COMPLETELY, is that there would have been far betters ways of getting the uninsurable the coverage they need. And the University changes WERE mandated by the ACA. You are every bit as blind as the hard core conservatives to things you don't want to see. Also, last time I checked the University of Minnesota was NOT a private company. <<Generous health benefit plans with low deductibles and co-pays are a thing of the past, as employers curtail the health insurance benefits they offer to be sure of avoiding the "Cadillac tax"—the high excise tax companies could be hit with under the Affordable Care Act. The intent of the tax was to bring down health care costs by making individuals more aware of and more responsible for what they're spending, to force them to forego expensive tests and procedures and too-frequent usage. It's the vaunted "skin in the game" theory of shifting costs. The problem is, not everyone with a "Cadillac" plan is actually a Cadillac kind of person.>> Source: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/28/1212224/--Cadillac-tax-causing-some-employers-to-cut-back-insurance-nbsp-programs">http://www.dailykos.com/story/...programs</a># It was printed in the Daily Kos, so surely recognize it is not right-wing propaganda. Hard core conservatives have to wake up to reality, but so do hard core liberals!!
Originally Posted By TeaPartyWave <<No, your expenses increased because of America's for-profit healthcare industry. The ACA did not require any company to raise prices>> Healthcare companies never made a profit in the past you idiot? What, they only now dare to want to make a...gasp...profit? Obamacare didn't mandate insurance companies to cover all kinds of items that caused premiums to skyrocket? Obamacare mandating that people with pre existing conditions HAD to be covered didn't cause prices to skyrocket for the rest of us? Adding 30 million poor people to Obamacare that WE have to pay for didn't cause prices to skyrocket along with deductables being jacked up? See what I mean about libs like ECDC...he blames EVERYTHING except the real truth. Stop trying to defend this law jerk. You and your pals were told countless times that a bill like this would destroy the American healthcare system and that is exactly what happened.....AND next year the REAL PAIN is coming with rate increases. Happy now?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Think I'll just sit out the election tomorrow. I can't in good conscience vote for EITHER side. Makes no difference in my area anyway. There is only one democrat on the ballot anyway. They don't bother running in any local races.
Originally Posted By TeaPartyWave RoadTrip, it does not matter if you sit this election out, the amount of people in your state that are ready to throw the Dems out on their ass is off the chart. Im just surprised that you still straddle the fence....you have common sense that the typical liberal fool does not have.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >> For the majority of us who had insurance we were happy with, it has taken away from what we had.<< It didn't affect my existing insurance, in fact, my premiums barely went up at all, reversing a decades long trend of big annual increases. The only people affected were those with junk policies that didn't even meet the meager requirements of the ACA "Bronze" policies.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>My point, which you missed COMPLETELY, is that there would have been far betters ways of getting the uninsurable the coverage they need.<< You bet there were. And guess who obstructed them? Remember that the ACA is basically Romneycare. Bob Dole also proposed something similar when he ran for president.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>My point, which you missed COMPLETELY, is that there would have been far betters ways of getting the uninsurable the coverage they need.<< Then vote for an independent candidate. It won't change the outcome this year, but enough of us do it, and if it becomes a growing trend, then the Dem/GOP duopoly might get the message. Stay home and they won't care.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The only people affected were those with junk policies that didn't even meet the meager requirements of the ACA "Bronze" policies.>> You apparently overlooked (or ignored) my comments concerning those of us who have "Cadillac Plans" through our employers (in my case, former employer). Because of increases in deductibles and co-pays, my out of pocket expense will increase by at least $1,000 per year. All because of the ACA. Now you may say "Poor baby... has a Cadillac plan and now has to pay a little more for it...". But considering I already have to pay $700 per month in premium expense for single coverage, that is a lot. How much do you pay for your health coverage??
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Originally Posted By fkurucz >> How much do you pay for your health coverage??<< The total cost for my family is $18,000 a year (including dental and visual). My employer picks up the lion's share. It cost that much BEFORE ACA. As for copays and deductibles increasing annually, that's been par for the course for the last 40 years. I don't see how you can blame the ACA for that. If anything, my policy has been more stable now than in the past.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip We've had increases before in co-pays, but never more than $5 per payment. This year they went up anywhere from $10-$50. And I've had insurance through the University of Minnesota for the past 30 years so I know the history there pretty well. We have NEVER had an annual deductible before. The University had always been committed to providing employees with coverage with no costs other than co-pays. Now we have a $200 deductible. Sure, it is quite low but it is a big change for the University to make after all these years. And it WAS caused by the ACA; I don't know why that is so hard for you to admit. The University sent employees a letter explaining the situation, and it pretty well matched the explanation given in the article from the Daily Kos that I referred to. The fact is, the ACA did result in cost increases for a significant number of people who already had insurance... even very good insurance. The ironic thing is if my situation were different the ACA could have forced me into having insurance less attractive than what I have now. I will be able to absorb the expense increase. I can imagine that some retired people would not and would be forced into an inferior ACA plan. I could have saved $160 a month in premiums with an ACA silver plan, but the coverage was not nearly as good as what I have through the University. But some people will not have that choice. They will be forced financially to accept the less inclusive insurance to save on the monthly premium. I agree that it is a very good thing that everyone in this country now has access to some type of coverage. But please recognize that it does come with a real cost increase for many people, and that is probably what makes it less popular politically than it could have been. I think you can see that when you look at poll data. Less than half the people "approve" of the ACA. But less than half also want the ACA repealed. I imagine they are like me... they support the goal, but not the method taken.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "and that is probably what makes it less popular politically than it could have been." Or maybe it's GOP lies that maislead the public that makes it less popular. Well, that, and the bungled rollout.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Beau was right. Dems are getting their asses kicked very hard tonight. And they bloody well effn deserve it! I hate my party with a passion! The Dems don't know how to organize. They don't know how to get out the vote. They're so busy trying desperately to take the moral high ground on every single issue, they constantly forget that the Republicans fight dirty and often. The Republicans go to the mattresses every single time. They get out the vote. All we get is demoralized and depressed. Sorry, but we deserved to lose tonight. And if the Dems don't change their strategy over the next two years, we're going to lose the White House in 2016. And we will DESERVE to lose it!! WELCOME TO THE NEW RACIST WHITE REPUBLIC! ENJOY YOUR STAY IN 1952!!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Well, the Republicans won the Senate but that is what everyone pretty much expected. I don't think that anyone got their asses handed to them though. Most of the races were very tight... I didn't see a landslide anywhere. Beau is also wrong in that I don't think it was a wholesale rejection of Obama and Democratic ideas. It was, as I previously said and you said just now, the result of a piss-poor campaign by the Democrats. And yes, they better figure it out before 2016.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I disagree, RT. Dems are losing key races for Governor where awful teabaggers like Scott Walker and Rick Scott are winning their re-election bids. These guys have done nothing positive for their states, broke campaign promise after campaign promise made four years ago, and are keeping their offices. WHY??? Because of one simple problem for the Dems: NON-WHITES DON'T VOTE IN MID-TERM ELECTIONS. Pure and simple. The white Republicans turned out to vote today. The non-white Democrats, especially the Latinos who are RIGHTFULLY pissed off with Obama for NOT acting on immigration reform LIKE HE PROMISED... stayed home. That's the story. The whites went out and voted for the Republicans. The non-whites stayed home. (Or were kept voting because of new voter restriction laws, etc.) Thanks, Obama, for disappearing into the woodwork and not working harder to get the message out. The Dems all ran away from you and they still lost. Great job. At least you got Obamacare passed so I guess that's all that matters to you in the end.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Jesus Christ, skinnerbox, get a grip. Nothing is going to change. Not a damn thing. No more will get done in the next two years than the previous two years. Matter of fact, likely even less. The GOP doesn't have the votes to override vetoes, so all we're going to have is gridlock. Plus, the GOP is not even close to being united. Ted Cruz is going to see to that. He'll spend more time being an asshole, calling for Obama's impeachment, trying to repeal Obamacare and who knows what else, all the while frustrating what passes for well meaning GOP members. By 2016, the GOP could very have eaten its young and imploded. There's a much better chance of that happening than anything else the next two years. It struck me tonight just how proud I am of California. Jerry Brown is a lot of things, but even at age 76 he's one of the more unfiltered, well meaning politicians we have. He's toned himself down over the decades, and we just gave him an unprecedented fourth term tonight. He's a policy wonk who actually enjoys the give and take of politics and the free exchange of ideas. He has never run on any gimmicky platform like abolishing unions or doing away with pensions. While the rest of the country will be frozen in time the next two years, California will be doing just fine with its budget surpluses and a governor willing to adapt and try new things.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Actually, in the grand scheme of things... none of this matters. Whether the Dems are in charge or the Republicans... nothing matters for the long haul. Short term? Yeah. Life will get harder for the working poor and the middle class families hanging by a thread. But for the long game? Like 20 years out? It's already over. Folks, we are done as a planet. Think the drought cycle in the west is bad now? Wait another five years. Think hurricanes like Katrina and Sandy are once-in-a-lifetime flukes? Nope. Fresh water scarcity is growing. Fresh food scarcity is growing. Bees pollinate the crops, which won't grow without the bees. And thanks to "miracles from molecules," we're losing our bee populations WORLDWIDE at alarming rates. Pesticides are making them extinct. So how will people survive when there isn't enough food for everyone? How will non-millionaires survive when grocery bills increase 10 fold over the next 10 years? Think $10/half gallon of milk is unheard of? Or $15 for a carton of eggs? Think again. And how will most families pay for these increases? Wages have been stagnant for all but the 1% for decades. Do you honestly believe the Republicans will raise the Federal minimum wage? Or strengthen Social Security and Medicare for seniors on fixed incomes? These declines are happening right now. The world is becoming more crowded and resources are becoming more scarce. People think that "Soylent Green" is simply science fiction. But that kind of future is slowly becoming reality. Affordable food is disappearing. Affordable housing is disappearing. And really good paying jobs have been disappearing for almost two decades. With the government now being run by the billionaires' puppets, none of this is going to improve. They don't care about the "little people" like us. They only care about acquiring more wealth at any cost. And that cost is the decline of the planet. In the grand scheme of things, nothing matters anymore. Because in 20 years, our "American way of life" is going to be replaced with environmental devastation and widespread poverty. And we have no one to blame but ourselves.
