Originally Posted By utahjosh And back and forth it goes. If you let election results control your peace and happiness, may I suggest looking elsewhere for your source of peace.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox First, the environment is falling apart in a big way. Extreme weather will continue to worsen. The drought in key agricultural states will also worsen and drive food prices higher. And the demand for rental housing as more and more families find themselves unable to get mortgages will drive up the cost of affordable housing, especially in the cities as young people continue their mass exodus from the more rural parts of the country to urban centers looking for work. Things are going to get a lot worse for the working and middle class before they get better, even with minimum wage increases at the state and local level. Second, I voted for Obama because I will never vote for a Republican ever again. Voted twice for Reagan when I didn't know any better; those days are over. That said, I held my nose both times voting for Obama and I have very little respect for him now. He should have passed immigration reform before the election like he said he would. Latinos stayed home and turned their backs on the Dems and it cost us. He's too much of a chickenshyte to stand for anything now, so I predict he will compromise on several issues now and give the Republicans what they want in these key areas: * Obama loves TPP so that is a done deal. Get ready to kiss more American jobs goodbye as they're exported to China. * There are enough votes to pass Keystone XL in Congress now, and I predict Obama will be strongarmed into signing it because the Republicans will scream "Obama hates job creation!" if he doesn't. And Obama will be too scared to appear anti-job growth ahead of the 2016 election. * The Republicans have been very vocal about wanting to privatize Social Security and Medicare, but realize that most of the country won't stomach that. So, the goal will be to eliminate it slowly through death of a thousand cuts. To that end, many Republicans ahead of the election have campaigned on keeping SSA and Medicare solvent longer by raising the eligibility age to 70. That won't fly with Dems, so Obama will most likely compromise and set the age at 67 for anyone not already receiving benefits. That of course will put pressure on the ACA to keep those citizens insured for two extra years, but the Republicans won't care as they work to kill Obamacare via death of a thousand cuts. * Mitch McConnell has already gone public with the plan to use budget reconciliation to kill the individual mandate and the subsidy program for ACA. He doesn't have enough votes to override a veto, but I guessing he won't need them. I believe Obama will be willing to negotiate some kind of compromise, like altering the four levels of subsidy qualification to better reflect the RomneyCare program it was based on. CommonwealthCare in Massachusetts had only three tiers of income qualification instead of the four that the ACA has, so eliminating that fourth tier would be something I could see Obama agree with. That means several hundred thousand individuals and families who are getting financial assistance for purchasing insurance won't receive it because they will be disqualified by earning too much. The $47K annual salary cap for a single individual would drop down closer to $33K, forcing those who are currently insured to go without coverage because they will no longer be able to afford it. And without the individual mandate, the judiciary will allow this change to happen because the penalty for not having insurance will be gone. And since this wouldn't affect more than a million individuals and families, the country will turn a blind eye because, hey, it's just a small percentage of people, I've got mine, so... F the rest of you. Killing off the individual mandate and lowering the threshold for subsidy qualification won't matter a hill of beans in the 2016 election, but it will push thousands and thousands of folks into the pre-ACA state of no health care coverage. And closer to home, with the Republicans keeping these Governor Mansions for four more years... more pain to come. Gerrymandering will remain in place for the House, even with sweeping census changes in 2020. The 1% will continue to enjoy lower taxes at the state and local level while everyone else pays the revenue for them. And programs like Medicaid will continue to die on the vine in these states and not expand, deepening poverty and raising mortality rates as folks die sooner from preventable and curable diseases for lack of adequate healthcare. The repercussions from this election won't be felt for a while, but it's going to be very painful for working and middle class families who are already struggling to get by. I don't know what it will take for them to see that voting for Republicans means the continuing dismantling of the middle class, since they still don't understand Republican obstructionism via the Senate filibuster. I'm guessing most Americans will never learn how the government actually works, and will continue to blame the President for stuff he has zero control over. And that is why I'm so depressed about yesterday's election. When the electorate is this dumb, to actually vote for Republicans because "American is on the wrong track because the rich get everything while the middle class gets screwed," which is what these voters were claiming in the exit polls, I don't see the country getting better. I see the 1% and corporations continuing to take further control of our society while selling the rest of us down the river. I don't have much hope for 2016 anymore, because the gridlock will continue to be blamed on Obama and the Republicans will convince most of America that they're suffering because of the Dems, all the while our standard of living continues in decline as the rich get richer and everyone else gets screwed.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>If you let election results control your peace and happiness, may I suggest looking elsewhere for your source of peace.<< I agree with Josh, though probably not so much on what your source of peace should be Which isn't to say elections don't matter. They do. But all any of us can do is our best. I voted. I encouraged my friends and family to vote a progressive ticket. I donated to one candidate I felt strongly about. He still lost. There's nothing I can do about that; life is short, enjoy the time you have.
Originally Posted By Ivan55 You donated? In other words you tried to legally buy an election outcome. Serves you right that you lost your money and your boy lost his bid. HAHAHAHAHA such a fool!!!!! I LOVE IT
Originally Posted By TeaPartyWave <<It goes without saying that anybody who votes for today's GOP is an idiot.>> And Passholder just continues to be the dumbest " lawyer " on the planet. I rest my case with this donk. You lib kooks lost because YOU are the fringe minority with a radical socialist world view that horrifies normal Americans. The vote last night was a vote to STOP YOU from doing any more damage. When you lose the Governorships of Ill, Mass and Maryland you know your days of pushing your Stalinist garbage are over. Skinnerbox...( see, I used your real name ), I will say this about you.... you are a passionate person for your side and never back down from a fight. For that, I tip my hat to you and will now leave LP for a long time... God bless Ted Cruz, the Tea Party, Sarah Palin and the single rider lines. Beaumandy... Out.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Did someone say something? What I love is the thread where Beau, BeausCuckold, BeausHerpes (!), and the 99th iteration of Granny are the only ones talking to each other.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<That tells you this was all about the map, and turnout>> That is certainly the main element. I don't doubt that. Large turnout generally favors Democrats. But even the electorate that turned out did not hold the hardcore right wing corporatist and social views. I think a deeper look into state initiative results provide evidence for this. This tells me that there was personal element at play here, either against the administration, or perhaps the general impotence of the Democratic party to forward populist agenda. I suppose many felt they had nothing to lose or gain as gridlock will likely remain unabated. Or perhaps they thought shaking up the system might produce more results. Who knows. But I believe a more thorough look at *what* people voted for, as opposed to simply *who* they voted for speaks volumes.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Partly. But there's also the cognitive dissonance that many Republican voters have. For instance, polls show consistently that a solid majority of Republicans favor raising the minimum wage (and indeed, several state MW hikes were voted in last night), yet on the very same day the vote to raise the MW, they also vote for Republican candidates, including candidates who specifically say they do not favor raising it. Ditto with the cognitive dissonance of those who say they don't like Obamacare, yet like its individual elements, or even say they like the "Affordable Care Act" (as long as it's not called Obamacare). The KY state program called Kynect IS Obamacare, and is very popular in a state that went for Romney big and just re-elected McConnell big. (McConnell refused to acknowledge that Kynect is Obamacare, and called it merely "a website.") When you have low-information voters, discerning a motive can be tricky indeed.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I didn't think it would be this big for the Republicans.<< I did. The electorate was expecting Obama and the Dems to wave their magic wand and fix everything. Now they're expecting the GOP to wave its magic wand and fix everything. But they can't. Even if businesses paid no taxes at all in the USA, it's still cheaper to offshore. Which is why for he past 15 years or so we've been playing games with real estate appreciation and going deeper into debt, at the personal, corporate and government levels.
Originally Posted By ecdc I heartily endorse posts 68 and 69. And it goes well beyond the issues listed there. It's not a coincidence that, almost always, the party that wins the White House loses the midterm elections. Americans have an unrealistic sense of how government is supposed to work--the magic wand is supposed to fix it. Not to mention that huge majorities of people polled don't even know who controls Congress. Republicans want this to be a repudiation. It's not, it's just voters not knowing anything. The President is the one person people remember (they can't even name the VP, the Secretary of State, the Speaker of the House, or the Majority Leader, in huge numbers!) so he gets the blame. And Dabob2's post is spot on. Voters in a bunch of states approved minimum wage hikes...on the same ballot where they voted for people who oppose minimum wage hikes. Now, that's not necessarily an inconsistency; they may feel like all things considered, they still support the person they voted for. But the totality of the evidence strongly points in one direction: Americans are freakin' idiots.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Excellent short article by Jonathan Chait about the election results: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/11/democrats-have-2-choices-gridlock-or-disaster.html">http://nymag.com/daily/intelli...ter.html</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And Dabob2's post is spot on. Voters in a bunch of states approved minimum wage hikes...on the same ballot where they voted for people who oppose minimum wage hikes. Now, that's not necessarily an inconsistency; they may feel like all things considered, they still support the person they voted for. But the totality of the evidence strongly points in one direction: Americans are freakin' idiots.>> There is another thing you are not considering, and it is very important to Conservatives. Control at the State Level vs Control at the Federal Level. It is not at all incongruous for them to support a raise in minimum wage for their state while still objecting to an increase in the Federally mandated minimum wage. I think part of the fear is that a Federal minimum would be based on markets on the coasts where cost of living is far greater than in a place like Arkansas. They are not opposed to wage increases, they just want to keep minimums appropriate to local conditions. Not an unreasonable thing in my point of view.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Yes, it would be a reasonable argument, RT, *if* the Federal minimum wage didn't put a full-time worker at the Federal poverty level. Raising the Federal minimum wage for ALL workers across the country is necessary for even the cheapest-to-live-in Southern states. It hasn't kept pace with inflation since Reagan took office. It desperately needs to be raised across the board. I'm sorry, but the real reason Republicans don't want to see the Federal minimum wage raised is because they don't want a Federal minimum wage, period. The conservatives believe right down to their bone marrow that workers are disposable tools that they should be able to control like slaves. Keep them stuck in dead end jobs with health insurance they cannot get elsewhere, working for you for peanuts. That's why they hate the ACA so much. It gave workers the ability to quit those slave jobs for better ones without having to worry if insurance was part of the hiring package. No, this is about a fundamental belief that the wealthy are above the law and should be in control of EVERYTHING. And having Big Government telling business that they need to set a standard for their labor and pay a living wage to their workers takes away from that feeling of privilege that God wanted them to be rich and do everything in their power to keep that wealth and grow it. And if that means that their employees will be living hand to mouth in poverty, well, that's simply God's will.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Well, there is a big difference between the motivation of the party and the motivation of individual voters. I cannot stress strongly enough how fiercely southern conservatives hate Federal ANYTHING. They feel that the Federal government should be responsible for national defense and not much else. I suppose it goes all the way back to pre-Civil War times and their fierce defense of state's rights. I can assure you there are far more minimum wage workers in Arkansas than there are business owners. And no, not all of them vote against their self-interest because they believe someday THEY will be a business owner. They accept that they will probably spend the rest of their lives in low wage jobs. But they feel more deeply about state's rights than their own self-interest. It is something that northerners like you and I will never begin to understand. But I have seen enough of it while living here over the past five years that I know it is true. That is why Democrats have such a hard time appealing to southern voters... the core beliefs and thought processes are just totally different.
Originally Posted By TeaPartyWave <<I'm sorry, but the real reason Republicans don't want to see the Federal minimum wage raised is because they don't want a Federal minimum wage, period.>> True <<The conservatives believe right down to their bone marrow that workers are disposable tools that they should be able to control like slaves.>> Not True - Conservatives know that simple economics proves that a Gov set min wage is a job killer more often than not. This has been proven countless times by economists for decades. We also know that a artificial set min wage causes prices to rise, thus taking away the benefit of the raise increase in the first place. Again, its all about simple economics, not conservatives wanting to harm workers as you stated. << That's why they hate the ACA so much. It gave workers the ability to quit those slave jobs for better ones without having to worry if insurance was part of the hiring package>> False - America hates Obamacare because it has caused premiums and deductibles to skyrocket all while providing a much lower level quality of healthcare,,amd in 2015 prices are scheduled to go up even higher thanks to Obamacare. Obamacare is causing people to lose their doctors. Obamacare is forcing doctors out of medicine. Obamacare is also causing millions to either lose their jobs or is causing people to go from full time to part time due to Obamacare guidelines. It has nothing to do with slave jobs or whatever else you said. You lost in a landslide because liberalism when put into practice makes people poorer with less opportunity to be successful. America won't put up with that for very long so the election was very easy to predict.
Originally Posted By TP2000 ecdc>> "Republicans want this to be a repudiation. It's not, it's just voters not knowing anything." Is that just a phenomenon that takes place in elections where you don't like the outcome, like last night? Or is the phenomenon of idiot voters wandering in to voting booths en masse and pushing the wrong buttons also something that happened in elections that favored Democrats, like 2012, 2008, 2006, 1998, etc.?
Originally Posted By Ivan55 that phenom. that you speak has a name(s): denial embarrassment political arrogance or all of the above known around these parts as "sore-loserman '14" I did not like the results either and I'm surrounded by GOP guys pretending they got my back but help restrict guns anyway but I'm not going to act like the denial fellers on this message board.
Originally Posted By Ivan55 at least the liberal democrats say it to your face and are honest with us: remove guns so on that level I can respect it so more easier than the ones who pretend to protect my interest but end up compromising in congress and down here in my very own backyard of the lone star. YOU HAVE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT!!!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I don't think Tuesday was a "repudiation of liberalism" or any of the similar hyperbole being spread, and I don't think 2006, 2008, 2012 etc. were a "repudiation of conservatism" either. I think neither is true. As I said, most Americans just don't lurch wildly from left to right and back again every couple of years. Their views remain pretty consistent. There are a few long-term clear trends on issues like same-sex marriage or thinking that drug laws go too far, but by and large most people remain pretty consistent. Which tells you that the wild swing in results is mostly a question of who actually comes out and votes. Some other factors too, but that's the biggest. The map was highly favorable to Republicans this year too. The Republicans actually picked up fewer house seats than the average for the opposition party in a president's 6th year (taking the average going back to WWII), and picked up just one more senate seat than the average. It was a good night for them, no question, but a little perspective is in order.
Originally Posted By TeaPartyWave Yeah, you libs keep on telling yourself that America didn't send a message that they HATE liberalism and all the misery it produces. America hates liberalism because America does NOT hate capitalism, God, the Constitution, freedom, liberty, progress and growth like the left does... You guys are now going to be out of power for a very long time. There is no reason to vote for you anymore. Your " way " has been a total predictable failure. Isn't destroying California and all the cites of America enough for ya all?
