Originally Posted By Dabob2 I have to disagree that Republicans don't do anything about abortion. Maybe not as much on the federal level - though even there, there are restrictions on funding, etc. - but on the state level in the last few years since they took over so many state houses and legislatures in 2010, there have been more abortion-restriction laws passed in the states than ever before, by far. Forced transvaginal ultrasounds, even if neither you nor your doctor wants one. Mandatory scripts that doctors have to say even if they don't believe it, or face prosecution. Trap laws designed to hold clinics that perform abortions adhere to laws that no other clinic has to, knowing full well that it will force them to close - as indeed dozens have. Some states have as few as one clinic left in the whole state. So while technically abortions are still legal and available in every state, in practical terms they're not available for millions of women.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "We didn't see that on Tuesday at all. We saw Americans with the attention span of Dug in Up voting over misinformed fears of ISIS, Ebola, Russia, and everything else. We see white Americans angry over Ferguson, and they are the largest voting bloc in the midterms. It's been an all around depressing, crappy Summer. The news media hasn't helped. Honestly, I'm not one to just blame the media all the time, but their Ebola coverage...holy crap. When people are frightened or they perceive things going badly, it's always the President that gets the blame. Always. Who's going to blame Boehner? The 22% of Americans who can identify him?" Fear. And people aren't happy about the gridlock in Washington. With a press reluctant to blame the actual people responsible for the gridlock, they take it out on the party they see as in charge. Never mind that despite a majority in the Senate, no one has any power to pass legislation without a super majority now.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < Although doing something to assure everyone had access to health insurance was the right thing to do, it was political suicide.> I can't quite agree with that. It can look like that after Tuesday, but again - a little perspective. Not all that many Republicans actually ran on anti-Obamacare this year. Some did, but many fewer than everyone predicted. It was not even in the top 5 of issues that independents/swing voters said they cared about. Of course, the GOP base still hates it with a passion, even as some of them USE it - often without even realizing it IS Obamacare. "I'm just using Kynnect, not Obamacare." Or "I'm just going on the exchange - it's not like I signed up for Obamacare." It was a bigger issue in 2010, and was somewhat of an issue in 2014, mostly indirectly. But consider that when it was a much more DIRECT issue - when the guy who's name is in "Obamacare" and who RAN on it was running, against a guy who swore he'd repeal it on "day one" (even though it was awfully similar to what he himself had done in MA)... Obama won handily. We HAD a referendum on Obamacare 2 years ago, if anything more so than it was a referendum on it this year, and Obamacare won. It amazes me that pundits (not talking about you here, RT) have been so blithely talking about how the electorate so "obviously" hates Obamacare, when in the election where it was much more of a direct referendum on Obamacare, they voted for Obama. Of course, it wasn't the only issue in 2012, but it wasn't the only issue this year either. So how it is that 2010 and 2014 sent a "clear message" that America hates Obamacare, but it's like 2012 never happened? And that was the larger presidential-year electorate and not the smaller GOP-tilted midterm electorate - more, not less, representative of America as a whole. It certainly wasn't political suicide for Obama himself - he won. It hurt the Democrats in 2010 and somewhat this year, but that's because the base hates it, and they came out. Again, it comes down to WHO TURNS OUT and actually votes. And if Obamacare never existed, the GOP base would have voted against Obama with a passion anyway. They would have decided they hated him for other reasons (and in fact they did - guns, ISIS, ebola - pretty bogus reasons when you examine them closely, but we're not talking about the brain trust when we're talking about most tea partiers, let's face it.)
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I have to disagree that Republicans don't do anything about abortion.<< Your point is well taken. What I meant is that Roe vs. Wade is still the law of the land, and all the GOP has accomplished is to pass local nuisance laws, which do not ban abortion. And some of those nuisance laws are challenged and overturned. I am convinced that the GOP will never get Roe vs. Wade overturned. For one thing, only a minority of Americans are against abortion.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Well, I think the ACA was at play too... especially in driving Republican turnout. There is also the fact that minorities and young voters tend to only vote in Presidential elections. When they vote at all. Somehow Democrats need to get the message out that a President is largely unable to do anything without Congress... that voting in mid-terms in just as important as voting for the President.
Originally Posted By TeaPartyWave <<I see no evidence people voted against Obamacare>> This is what happens when you only read far left kook websites and hang out at the steam room with the fellas. The entire election was about Obamacare and the fact that America wants it repealed. Every GOP candidate ran on Obamacare as a central issue. This is why the as kicking was so easy to predict. The ONLY people that still still attempt to support Obamacare are far left zealots that never bothered to read what the bill was going to do if implemented.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I am convinced that the GOP will never get Roe vs. Wade overturned.> Me too. First all, they CAN'T per se - it would take a SCOTUS decision overturning Roe v. Wade. But most wouldn't really want to anyway; it's valuable to them politically right where it sits as something to rile up the base. <all the GOP has accomplished is to pass local nuisance laws, which do not ban abortion.> They don't ban it, but depending on which state we're talking about, some are much more than just "nuisance" laws.
Originally Posted By ecdc They de facto ban it by passing such stringent restrictions that clinics and physicians can't meet the new requirements, and are forced to close. But nah, the GOP doesn't have a patriarchy problem.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 FWIW, CNN has the most extensive exit polling on a range of issues. Even with the Republican-skewed electorate, two of the many polls gives the lie to the narrative some are trying to create (or parrot): The 2010 Health Care Law... Did not go not far enough: 25% Was about right: 21% Went too far: 49% So that's about a dead-even split between those who thought it went too far and those who thought it was about right or didn't go far enough. And that's WITH a heavily Republican electorate! So much for "The Dems lost because of Obamacare." Your House Vote Meant To Express... Support for obama: 19% Opposition to obama: 33% Obama not a factor: 45% Not a surprise with this electorate that opposition surpassed support. But the largest plurality was "not a factor." <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cnn.com/election/2014/results/race/house#exit-polls">http://www.cnn.com/election/20...it-polls</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip But that is MY point. Whether they think it didn't go far enough, or think it went too far; 74% of voters do not like the ACA the way it is. I'm one who thinks it was a half assed solution, so I am in the 25%.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 But the lion's share of those who don't think it went far enough don't want to get rid of it. And it you click on the link, you'll see most of those (78%) who wanted something stronger than the ACA were Democrats and presumably voted for Democrats this year. Anyway, my point is it's just not accurate to say that the results this year are a referendum on Obamacare or that the Democrats lost because of Obamacare, when exit polls of the actual voters show about half either like it as is or are Democrats who wanted something stronger.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Never has a better president been so disliked*** Unless that's just a media meme that you're buying into, and it isn't in fact true. Would you be surprised to learn that Obama's lowest approval rating thus far is higher than any of his predecessors since Kennedy? <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/11/01/big-lie-medias-telling-about-obamas-approval-rating/">http://www.addictinginfo.org/2...-rating/</a> ***Although doing something to assure everyone had access to health insurance was the right thing to do, it was political suicide. We saw that on Tuesday*** That certainly sounds more dramatic than 'the incumbent almost invariably loses ground in mid-term elections', but consider this - he won two terms. I'm sure Papa Bush and the Peanut Farmer would love to go back in time and commit that kind of political suicide. For that matter, Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson would probably want to learn a thing or two from this 'reviled' president who somehow managed to kick establishment ass twice running, and honestly did he ever even really break a sweat? In modern history, only Reagan enjoyed such drama-free election success. Just sayin...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Maybe it is just the press today. The only president I remember being this unpopular is GW Bush in his second term. And he came by it honestly. ;-)
Originally Posted By Mr X Of course, many of my fine points were already said - honestly LPWE is refreshing. Even the left wing sites aren't as quick to point out the obvious, especially right now as they're busy wailing and gnashing their teeth and throwing Obama under the bus right now much like the media instructed them to do. More sheep. Too bad LP has such a nasty troll infestation - having to deal with an antisocial psychopath can't be easy, no matter how much people want them to "deal with it". Honestly, one of these days I wouldn't be surprised if they shut this whole forum down, Disney and all. I hope not, but that's probably Beau's ultimate aim. But anyway...yeah, I agree with the posters who said what I said, only first.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Maybe it is just the press today*** Give that man a cigar! ***The only president I remember being this unpopular is GW Bush in his second term*** His approval sank to as low as 19%. I think you also might be mixing up percentage of dissatisfaction with level of vitriol, particularly given where you're living. I would not argue the fact that those who DO dislike the guy, actively hate his guts. For what reasons? I think there are lots, but health care is just a convenient smokescreen for those types I would say (not to mention such low information/high hysteria types are probably the ones who'll benefit the most from it! how ironic is that!?). Did you hear the one about the caller on a radio show who called the President the mother of all racial slurs yesterday? Yeah...the vitriol is high. The percentages, not so much.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I think you also might be mixing up percentage of dissatisfaction with level of vitriol, particularly given where you're living. I would not argue the fact that those who DO dislike the guy, actively hate his guts. For what reasons? I think there are lots, but health care is just a convenient smokescreen for those types I would say (not to mention such low information/high hysteria types are probably the ones who'll benefit the most from it! how ironic is that!?).>> We're all adults here. We can handle the truth. The folks down here have absolutely DESPISED Obama from the start because he is Black. End of story.
Originally Posted By Mr X That's one reason. I think there are a fair number of folks who despise him for the same reason they despised Clinton, though, and that goes beyond race of course...I daresay a greater number of them fit into that category. Like I said, there are a number of reasons, but an aggressive health care agenda isn't one of them. Not really.
Originally Posted By Mr X One more thing - It's almost funny, the healthcare thing being their big complaint. Naturally the Democrats are scared shitless to address any of the more plausible issues that provoke right wing anger, such as gun control (no, really, Obama hasn't taken any away and never said anything about it, either - believe me!), expanding welfare, climate change... It makes sense when a conservative gets in a huff about those things, which is why the dems are too spineless to address any of them, so the right wing is forced to get all apoplectic about freakin health care (and you know full well only the derps are *honestly* upset about it, cause their radio told em to be). It's just laughable on the face of it, but they manage to keep a straight face when they really should be doubled over laughing themselves over the fact that anyone with a near-human intelligence level ought to see right through it. Instead, we vote em back in. I love it.
