Originally Posted By Mr X ***<Why don't you disparage Obama for actual, real stuff he has screwed up on?> I have. It was dismissed, distorted, and denigrated.*** Haven't seen it.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Try disparaging with facts and logic next time. That often helps.> Not with liberals. <Haven't seen it.> Because liberals will dismiss anything that doesn't fit their worldview, and then forget they saw it.
Originally Posted By Mr X Now I remember how trying to converse with Doug is nothing but an exercise in annoyance. *yawn*
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Don't blame me. I didn't vote to give the Democrats control of Congress in 2006.>> Questions for Doug regarding the 110th Congress, during 2007 and 2008: 1) How many bills were passed by both the House and Senate for President Bush to sign? 2) How many of those bills were signed by Bush? 3) How many of those bills were vetoed by Bush? 4) How many bills passed by the House were NOT passed by the Senate? 5) How many bills passed by the House but NOT passed by the Senate never came to a vote during those two years? 6) How many of those bills that never came to a vote in the Senate were FILIBUSTERED by the minority Republican Senators? (Here's a hint: by Oct 3, 2008, it was over 100, the second highest amount being 61 during the 107th Congress during Bush's first two years.) If you cannot or will not provide the answers to these very relevant questions, I will be more than happy to provide them for you. In fact, I'll help get you started: the answer to question #6 is 104. The point to all of this? WHO CARES if the Dems were in control of the 110th Congress, since virtually NONE of the laws they wanted to pass were actually signed into law!! How could you possibly blame the Dems controlling Congress for the final two years of Bush's presidency, as the reason why we're in the economic turmoil we have today? The Republican controlled Congress under the Bush administration for six years is responsible for most of this damage. If you choose to believe otherwise, so be it. But given the answers to my questions above, you have no logical or factual basis to blame the Dems for what we're suffering through right now.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Now I remember how trying to converse with Doug is nothing but an exercise in annoyance.> You want honest, intelligent debate? Try debating with intelligence and honesty. You could start by admitting that liberal posters here regularly dismiss, distort, and denigrate the views of conservatives. Or you could admit that it's not unreasonable for people to want to see what the actual facts are about President Obama's birth and background, and not dismiss all of them as crazy wingnuts. Which of course was my point, before it was distorted and denigrated.
Originally Posted By mawnck FELLOW TRAVELERS? Jumping Jiminy Chrismons, man. You are a friggin' cartoon character!
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <The Republican controlled Congress under the Bush administration for six years is responsible for most of this damage.> I've explained multiple times why this "damage" happened, and how it began long before the Republicans gained control of Congress in 1994 and President Bush was installed into office, and how the Democrats in Congress exacerbated this problem, so I'm not going to repeat my arguments here. I'll just point out that your guys passed the bailout bill which allowed the big banks and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take government money and give their people big bonuses, and it was your guys that passed the stimulus bill, which they claimed would revive the economy and keep unemployment below 8%. <But given the answers to my questions above, you have no logical or factual basis to blame the Dems for what we're suffering through right now.> Can you point out which bill the Democrats passed that would have addressed the problem that President Bush vetoed? Normally, if you're heading for a cliff, you slow down and turn, but the Democrats just kept calling for more speed.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <You are a friggin' cartoon character!> No, but I'm arguing with them.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Or you could admit that it's not unreasonable for people to want to see what the actual facts are about President Obama's birth and background, and not dismiss all of them as crazy wingnuts*** The facts are already out there for all to see. I dismiss them as crazy wingnuts, and you as well as you seem to support their position. Like I wrote before, if you'd like to have an actual conversation about concerns (REAL concerns) about the administration, I'm around. Til then... ***You could start by admitting that liberal posters here regularly dismiss, distort, and denigrate the views of conservatives*** Untrue. Honest, regular conservatives get a fair shake here. I enjoy chatting with them, actually. Partisan zealots like yourself, however, do get dismissed. And for good reason. Noone wants to talk to a noise machine parrot that has a repertoire about as compelling as a broken record.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I'll just point out that your guys passed the bailout bill which allowed the big banks and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take government money and give their people big bonuses*** Yup, you're right. I didn't like that one bit. I especially didn't like the fact that Bush called for it, but it's no surprise he'd pile that onto his list of massive screwups on the way out the door.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Honest, regular conservatives get a fair shake here<< I don't know about that. DAR's been trying to agree with you guys about the torture for awhile now, and you insist on not letting him.
Originally Posted By Mr X DAR is a special case. He is an extremist in a couple of areas, which makes discussion difficult to say the least. However, on many other topics I agree with him and often find him to be a compelling and reasonable guy to talk to. Plus, we're facebook buddies and everything. When he comes out to Japan, I'll buy him a beer. I doubt that anyone in this whole community would care to contact or meet the likes of DougDubH outside of here because, well, noone likes a wingnut. C'est la vie.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Honest, regular conservatives get a fair shake here.> You're delusional. Please point out the conservatives that you enjoy chatting with. Please point out the WE thread that a conversative posted on without being denigrated.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh DAR is a moderate, but almost anytime he says anything conservative he gets denigrated.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I've explained multiple times why this "damage" happened, and how it began long before the Republicans gained control of Congress in 1994 and President Bush was installed into office, and how the Democrats in Congress exacerbated this problem, so I'm not going to repeat my arguments here.>> How freaking convenient! The damage happened BEFORE the Republicans took control in January 1995, and was WORSENED when the Dems took back Congress in January 2007. So that means Bush and the Republicans were POWERLESS to undo the damage during their six years of dual control of both the Presidency and Congress? SIX YEARS AND THEY COULDN'T REVERSE IT?? WHY?? Does it have something to do with the Dems and the Senate filibuster? Did the Dems prevent specific bills from passing in the Senate that would have been signed by Bush, that would have undone the damage you're referring to? If the answer is yes, which ones were they? <<Can you point out which bill the Democrats passed that would have addressed the problem that President Bush vetoed?>> Not until you answer my questions about how many bills Bush signed and vetoed during the 110th Congress that the Dems tried to pass. You seem to believe that all of this was caused way before Bush, and worsened by the Dems in the last two years, and that Bush and the Republican controlled Congress were POWERLESS to change it. If Bush and the Republicans couldn't reverse course during those six years of control... how do you expect the Dems to change it? Why would you expect the Dems to change it, since you feel the Republicans are so freakin superior? If they couldn't change it under Bush, you have no right to bash the Dems if they can't.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy ***I'll just point out that your guys passed the bailout bill which allowed the big banks and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take government money and give their people big bonuses*** Maybe you can enlighten us on where that bill originated? Remember Secretary Paulson? Remember how the bailout bill he originally forwarded was worded -- no oversight, no scrutiny, unlimited power of the Treasury Secretary to implement the bailouts? Is that the bill you would have preferred Congress pass since it's the one authored by the Bush administration? I know you forget these things, but Congress voted that bill down. Was the bill that Congress eventually passed perfect? Absolutely not, but it wasn't the abysmal piece of work promoted by the bullies in the Bush cabinet who, if they got their way, would have seen the billions in TARP funds handed out without any accountability whatsoever.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>You're delusional. Please point out the conservatives that you enjoy chatting with. Please point out the WE thread that a conversative posted on without being denigrated.<< A personal attack, Douglas. Second, I enjoy DAR, DVC_Pongo, vbdad, and wahooskipper. No doubt you'll claim these people are moderates and therefore not really conservative, but I would disagree.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Actually, I'll admit that I pile on DAR. And most definitely, I view him as a conservative. He might see himself as a moderate, but I do not. And when we get out of WE and over to the Disney stuff, I really enjoy his posts. He's got excellent insight into the Disney fan thing, and I enjoy reading them.
