Originally Posted By cape cod joe We all feel bad for the family wahoo as that is obvious. It is also obvious that 2 deaths out of millions is safe. As I just posted on the front of the Orlando Sentinel, the junk food at the parks is far more dangerous and that topic is FAR more important than 2 deaths in millions. Just my uncommon sense I guess.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well - I find most warnings on Disney attractions are overkill, but I think my family will now most definately skip this attraction. Horizons never killed anyone.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Cape Cod Joe...it wasn't all that obvious, which is why I made that comment. I'm not so sure you can just discount 2 deaths in millions. That is what the railroads try to argue when the don't put up railroad crossing gates. Why spend the money on lights/gates when the overwhelming majority of people cross the track? But think about it, crossing gates almost always go up at a previously "safe" crossing AFTER someone has died. There have been two deaths in the last year. Ok, maybe that isn't significant. Will it be significant when there are one or two more? What is the number of deaths that it will require before it is significant?
Originally Posted By sherrytodd #1 - The fact remains that the coroners determined that the boy's death had nothing to do with the ride. Why are people continuing to argue this? If there are any coroners out there who actually examined the boy, then speak up. Otherwise, I don't think speculation from anyone here over-rides the professionals decisions. #2 We don't even know what happened yet. Can we wait till we know why the woman died before we condemn this ride? #3 I really don't get what the fear is from Mission Space. This ride creates a maximum of 2.5 G's and this is only during the two launch sequences. The rest of the ride is fewer G-forces. The Incredible Hulk Coaster creates a maximum of 4 G's. Mission Space did not scare me or my family in the least. Plus, I have never seen more warnings before you get on a ride in my life! I actually fealt that they were to the point of rediculous. Anyone who goes on this ride saying that they were not aware of the intensity of the ride and just thinks it like Star Tours would have a very difficult arguement. #4 Many years ago, I did a lot of white-water rafting. Every year there were several deaths. The deaths were reported as river deaths, but the reality was, the vast majority of people died from heart attacks. Most of these people who died from heart attacks did not have any outward signs of heart disease. It was not the river that killed them. It was not drowning. It was not trama. It was simply the surge of adrenaline which aggrivated a previously unknown heart condition. That is what most likely lead to these deaths. Not the mechanics of the ride itself. So I guess the solution would be to ban all rides which could cause a surge of adrenaline thus leading to aggrivation of unknown heart conditions. So, everyone can argue this till they're blue in the face (and I'm sure it will be), but I personally will wait for the professionals' opinions before jumping to any conclusions.
Originally Posted By Coachbagfanatic1 What ever the cause of death, our thoughts and prayers go out to the woman and her family.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<But the professionals (and by that I mean the coroner who performed the autopsy on the four year old boy) said the ride WAS NOT at fault, but the cause was a heart defect that put the boy at risk for sudden death at ANY TIME>> Not exactly. They said he was at risk of death in STRESSFUL situations. <<An autopsy concluded he died of a heart condition that a medical examiner said can cause sudden death in stressful situations.>> source: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12300569/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12 300569/</a> <<So, at Disneyland we've had deaths attributable to Disney error, but so far as WDW, we've not.>> That is what I find dangerous about Mission Space. There were deaths on those other rides because something happened that is not supposed to happen. Whether it was CM error, failure of the equipment, or unsafe actions by the guest; the guest died because something went wrong. With Mission Space two people have died when everything and everybody was doing what it should. That to me is a HUGE difference that no one else seems to realize is significant. Perhaps I haven't explained it well. <<The scariest part of MS are the warnings.>> Uhhh... no. The scariest part of Mission Space is that people die on it when it is operating properly. As I've said before, I LOVE Mission Space and would hate to see it close. Perhaps the solution is to back it off a little as others have suggested. It is a very intense ride. I ride anything and everything at theme/amusement parks and nothing has ever scared me. Until I rode Mission Space. Towards the end of the liftoff sequence I was thinking "I don't know if I'm going to be able to take this". Very shortly after that thought, MS went into the weightless sequence and I knew I would be OK. But there WAS a quite stressful moment for me there and I’m a thrill ride junkie. How would a person react who was NOT a thrill ride junkie? A person who got on the ride not knowing that it was a more intense experience than they were prepared to handle? I think people need to figure out what can be done to make this attraction safer. It does no one any good in my opinion to just blow it off as a fluke.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper G's are only relevant when you are talking about how long the force is sustained on the body. Amusement parks like to compare the amount of G's on their rollercoasters compared to the amount of Gs astronauts experience. But, on a coaster you sustain a g force for a fraction of the time an astronaut sustains it so it isn't a fair comparison. I don't know the specifics of the Mission: Space ride but that may play a factor. I'm not jumping to conclusions. But, I think it is fair to say that those who are alarmed or concerned have a fair reason to be.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden sherrytodd, you make some compelling arguments, all which in the end don't mean a darn thing. I personally agree with you. More than likely, the ride itself did not cause the person to die. But is that really the issue? Woman. Dies. Mission Space. Forget about all the other rides where a death may have occurred, whether it's from stupidity on the guest's part to some person's ticker went out. Here's what the media and general public knows about MS. It cost a ton of money to build, people got sick, and 2 people didn't live to tell about their experience. A coroners report isn't going to erase those facts. Disney can say all it wants about how the ride was not responsible and they'd be right, but so what? If there is a sense of dread from a number of their guests, than the company still has a problem.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Sustained exposure to above normal G-Forces can be VERY dangerous. The AVERAGE person blacks out at 4-G. Disney's Mission Space gets you half-way there. I imagine even half-way there can be dangerous for some people. <<Acceleration and de-acceleration are expressed in terms of "G", with 1-G describing the effects of gravity we experience under normal conditions while at rest on the surface of the Earth. Therefore, when accelerating to 2-G you would feel the force of gravity doubled. As G-forces increase due to acceleration, you begin to feel heavier and experience difficulty in moving your arms and legs. As G-forces continue to increase, you may experience difficulties in moving your hands and feet, and are not able to lift your head to look around. At 5-G’s, your ten pound head would weight 50 pounds, a load that your neck muscles are not accustomed to handling. There are other effects of increasing G-forces as well. Blood circulation becomes impaired as the heart must work harder to pump blood through the body. This impaired circulation can lead to a dimming of consciousness as the heart can no longer pump blood to the brain. You will start to experience tunnel vision, then colors will fade away and everything will appear white, then fade to black. You have just experienced a gravity induced loss of consciousness, or blackout. In general, anything more than 4 or 5 G’s will cause the average person who has not been trained to deal with these effects to black out. >> Source: <a href="http://www.astrophys-assist.com/educate/spaceflight/spaceflight.htm" target="_blank">http://www.astrophys-assist.co m/educate/spaceflight/spaceflight.htm</a> I am not a Disney basher and have never before questioned keeping an attraction open after a death. I strongly defended Disney after the BTMM incidents knowing that things had gone wrong that were very unlikely to go wrong again. Mission Space seems to be a different situation, and I think it is only prudent to take a close look at a one-of-a-kind attraction that has no precedent anywhere to provide experience and guidance.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd Just a little perspective... 11/15/05 - 12 year old collapsed in the wave pool at Typhoon Lagoon and later died. 7/12/05 - 16 year old girl suffered a stroke on Tower of Terror. Was last reported in critical condition. Was flown home for treatment. 4/30/05 - 30 year old Indiana man lost consciousness and died on Dinosaur from heart failure. 2/05 - Elderly Minnesota woman lost consciousness died on POTC 9/23/03 - 34 year old woman was found unconscious with no pulse after riding Incredible Hulk Coaster. Family discontinued life support in October. 7/25/03 - Mom of four suffered a heart attack and died on Top Gun at Paramount Kings Island 5/3/03 - An 11 year old girl was found unconscious after riding Raging Bull at Six Flags Great America. CPR was performed, but the girl was later pronounced dead. This is not an all-inclusive list. It is not the physical mechanics of the rides themselves. It is the stress that the body endures while riding thrill rides that can aggrivate previous medical conditions (whether known or hidden). All the warnings you run into before these rides are actually there for a reason. I highly doubt that Mission Space would kill an otherwise healthy person while operating normally.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip ^^^ Thanks for the information. Deaths of young people on properly operating rides are not as rare as I thought. I guess you just never hear about them because they are not Disney. I am now less concerned that Mission Space is in some way more dangerous than other attractions. That's a good thing... as I've said; it is my favorite ride anywhere.
Originally Posted By pkonold Looks like it is back up and running: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2631&ncid=2631&e=7&u=/ap/20060413/ap_on_re_us/disney_world_death" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmp l=story&cid=2631&ncid=2631&e=7&u=/ap/20060413/ap_on_re_us/disney_world_death</a>
Originally Posted By t1lersm0m <<The Incredible Hulk Coaster creates a maximum of 4 G's. Mission Space did not scare me or my family in the least.>> How many deaths have The incredible Hulk Coaster at IOA caused? And I'm not talking about the ride coming off of the track, or two cars crashing into each other. I'm talking about deaths related to someone's heart health?
Originally Posted By sherrytodd ^^^ Woman Remains Critical After Roller Coaster Ride POSTED: 3:58 p.m. EDT September 23, 2003 UPDATED: 6:58 a.m. EDT September 24, 2003 ORLANDO, Fla. -- A Martin County woman remained in critical condition Wednesday after riding the Incredible Hulk Coaster at Universal Orlando's Islands of Adventure theme park, according to Local 6 News. Video Woman Found Without Pulse On Hulk Roller Coaster Universal Orlando President Makes Comment SLIDESHOW: Sky 6 Images Of Ride Officials said a Leslie Killer, 37, of Jensen Beach was transported in critical condition to Sand Lake Hospital after she was found unconscious in her seat at about 2:35 p.m. Witnesses said she had no pulse when she was removed from the ride. Killer is a district sales manager for Godiva Chocolates and was visiting the park with co-workers. Universal Orlando President Bob Gault said the ride was inspected and it was determined that there was no ride malfunction. However, the attraction will remain closed until Wednesday. Gault said that this type of incident has never happened before on the ride. Local 6 News reported that the woman had no cardiac medical history but had been complaining of jaw pain for most of the day. Riders are propelled out from 0 to 40 mph in 2 seconds on the steel coaster --which is the same force as an F-16 fighter jet. The Hulk reaches heights of 110 feet and speeds of 60 mph, according to a Local 6 News report. **The woman was later taken off life support by her family in October.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Sherry Todd--Rational thinking is very rare. MS is safe as 2 people out of millions have died as a result of their fault and not even the ride! 600,000 people die a year from obesity, not to mention the trillions in medical care and time lost in productivity. I would suggest people focus on their lifestyles, i.e. diets and exercising rather than this unproductive conversation.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<MS is safe as 2 people out of millions have died as a result of their fault>> Just to pick a nit, I don't think the two families of the deceased would appreciate being told their loved one's were at fault for having an unknown medical condition.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Neither was Disney to be rational. It's each person's responsibility to take care of their health. I would tell that to the parent's face as I take care of my kids and make sure they are safe. If you remember my daughter almost died last month, so I don't need to hear about other parents who screwed up and don't want to take responsiblity! FTR-I would never tell that to their face as I wouldn't tell a 300 pound person that they should stop killing themselves as I am sensitive but honest.
Originally Posted By I am Sancho "3 times in my flying experiences ( I used to travel a lot when I was an internal auditor) - I witnesses coronary arrests on planes..at least 2 of those did not survive to get back on the ground...." When that happens, do they stick the body in the Ice machine or the overhead? I don't know about you, but I'd be a bit upset if I had to sit next to a corpse- unless it was Bernie- I love that guy!
Originally Posted By AZDLDad regurgitating a website- <a href="http://saferparks.org/are_rides_safe/dynamic_force/dynamics_and_patrons.php" target="_blank">http://saferparks.org/are_ride s_safe/dynamic_force/dynamics_and_patrons.php</a>
Originally Posted By KachinaBear << I don't need to hear about other parents who screwed up and don't want to take responsiblity!>> Ok, maybe I'm confused here about why the kid on MS died... I thought he was an otherwise healthy kid with an unknown heart defect. In what way did his parents "screw up?" Are you suggesting they kenw about the defect and let him ride anyway? Or that they are screw ups for not knowing their kid was impaired in the first place? Or did you mean something else entirely and I'm misunderstanding you somehow? I just don't get how the untimely deah was the fault of either the four year old or his parents.
