Originally Posted By t1lersm0m Considering how sue happy the American public generally is, was there a law suit after the first death on M:S?
Originally Posted By englishboy quote: "WDW and the other local parks have an excellent safety record. Far superior to an older park like Disneyland." Huh, how do you figure? More people have did in the last year at WDW than at DL. More people have died at WDW in the last five years than at DL. Even this, more people have died at WDW in the last year than have died at DL in the past five years. I imagine there are a number of ways to calculate "overall safety". But on what is your assertion based?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I believe Mission Space has 3 or 4 centrifuge units. Do you think it would be a good idea to have one of them run at a reduced speed for those who want a 'Mission Space Lite' experience? I think it could increase overall attendance at the attraction by broadening the group of people it appeals to.
Originally Posted By englishboy That's an interesting idea. Sea World (San Diego) has a similar system for its flight simulator ride. In general I'd love for thrill rides, when possible, to offer older and very young guests alternatives to partially experience the ride. But I'm not sure that would slove the safety issue in this particular case. The people who are dying seem unaware of underlying medical issues. I also think that Disney has backed itself into a corner at this point: if they alter the ride their actions may be seen a tacit admission of problems with M:S.
Originally Posted By kmovies California Screamin' closed due to one car running into another; which was a mechanical failure that needed to be addressed / fixed. In the case of Mission: Space; it was shut down and an inspection showed nothing wrong with the operation of the ride. A woman claimed to be ill after riding DL's Matterhorn; the ride closed, the state came in; cleared the ride and it reopened (I believe this may have taken two days instead of one, but likely could have opened much quicker without the legal red tape). Gosh - I wonder who I would want to check over my car - an auto mechanic or the government. While I believe the government tries to do the right thing, Disney may be better skilled at inspecting the ride than a State Official.
Originally Posted By pixiedust1 pixie... <<It is fine to disagree with englishboy, but you might want to try putting some intelligence into your posts.>> Sorry... but it seemed that he was attacking Florida safety standards and I can gurantee he has no knowledge of what hes talking about... there was no intelligence in his statement whatsover... IMO ... people who make statements like that do not need a intelligent answer... I refrain frombeing in a thread with soneone like him.. he can have HIS opinion... its based on no facts other then his limited thoughts... end of thread
Originally Posted By englishboy This is from last year, but it shows 100+ emergency calls stemming from M:S over roughly a two year period. I love RT's idea for alternate access for thrill rides in general. But I think WDW has a very expensive problem on its hands. I've heard rumors that M:S cost between 150M and 300M to develop and build. Probably a good chunk of that was picked up by the sponsor. But if the paramedics are coming 50 times per year to assist guests experiencing problems after riding M:S, you are going to probably have more serious medical problems in the future. I don't see these problems going away. "Previously unreleased Reedy Creek Fire/Rescue records show more than 100 responses by paramedics to Mission: Space between summer 2003 and Daudi's death. Those included nine people who passed out during or immediately after the ride. Eighteen others complained of temporary paralysis, particularly of the hands. Most common was severe dizziness, experienced by 38 riders, followed by 31 people who vomited during or after the ride.
Originally Posted By englishboy Kmovies, I believe your analogy is flawed: "I wonder who I would want to check over my car - an auto mechanic or the government. While I believe the government tries to do the right thing, Disney may be better skilled at inspecting the ride than a State Official." This is a lot closer: Who do you want to tell you the car is safe--the company who sold you the car or a state official? As I recall, Ford did a pretty good job of hiding those problems with the Explorers a few years back. How many people died from turn-overs related to overturned Explorers on faulty tires? It was over 100. I know there are problems with government agencies--no, duh on that one. But I'd rather have a government agency inspecting safety than a company who has a large financial interest in the outcome of the safety inspection.
Originally Posted By pixiedust1 California Screamin' at Disney's California Adventure July 29, 2005 Two trains collided on Disneyland California Adventure's California Screamin' near the loading platform. 48 people were on the ride at the time, with as many as 15 transported by Anaheim EMS to local hospitals. -- Reported on July 29, 2005 by an anonymous reader. Link: <a href="http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=2300" target="_blank">http://www.themeparkinsider.co m/news/response.cfm?ID=2300</a> Storybook Land Canal Boats at Disneyland March 16, 2005 A small child's finger became trapped between the boat and loading dock when an adult stepped on the side to enter the boat. A bone in the finger was broken and the finger severed at the tip. Disneyland closed the ride for two days, then made unspecified changes at the loading area as a result of the incident. -- Reported on March 21, 2005 by Robert Niles. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disneyland December 11, 2004 I am female and 41 years old. I had just exited the train and took two steps on the wood flooring which was still wet from the cleaning crews and slipped and fell to the ground. I could not move due to pain in my knee. I was transported to first aid via a wheelchair for an ice pack. I still have swelling and bruising on my knee and hip. -- Reported on December 14, 2004 by an anonymous reader. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disneyland July 8, 2004 Two trains on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad collided in the loading area at 5:05 p.m. Anaheim police reported that a 10-year-old boy, a 44-year-old woman and a 42-year-old man were transported by private ambulance to a local area hospital for undisclosed injuries. -- Reported on July 8, 2004 by Jason Herrera. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disneyland September 5, 2003 One man was killed and at least 10 others injured after an accident at Disneyland's Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Authorities set up a triage area near the ride, located in the Frontierland section of the park. One person was injured with facial lacerations. Other injuries appear to be minor. -- Reported on September 5, 2003 by Jason Herrera. Link: <a href="http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=1296" target="_blank">http://www.themeparkinsider.co m/news/response.cfm?ID=1296</a> I rest my case... IMO
Originally Posted By englishboy Pixie, um, what's your point? During the same time period 2003-2006 the paramedics came to M:S over 150 times, two people died, many went to the hospital. And that's just for one ride at WDW--far more than what you have listed for the entire resort at DL. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove??? The fact are: far more people died at WDW than at DL over the past five years.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd englishboy, can you post the link from where you're getting the statistics on the emergency responses.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper More people visited WDW than DL over the past year. That is an important aspect of the statistics.
Originally Posted By englishboy sherrytodd, the article I was using is below, but give me one second... <a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com" target="_blank">http://www.orlandosentinel.com</a> /news/local/orange/orl-missionspace2205sep22,0,1236254.story?coll=orl-news-headlines-orange >>The parents of a 4-year-old who died after riding Epcot's Mission: Space want tougher thrill-ride restrictions for small children, but Disney officials are waiting for the boy's autopsy results before deciding if changes are needed. Moses and Agnes Bamuwamye, whose son Daudi died June 13, proposed new height restrictions in a letter their attorney sent to Disney officials last month. Disney rejected their request to raise the bar from 44 to 51 inches, writing two weeks ago that no evidence connects the death to the ride, according to correspondence the Pennsylvania family's attorney provided to the Orlando Sentinel. "Simply to make a change on no informed basis would be false solace to those affected and of no benefit to anyone else," wrote Margaret C. Giacalone of Disney's legal staff. "Further, the minimum height requirement was carefully considered, analyzed and established on the basis of a variety of factors." The family's lawyer, Robert A. Samartin of Tampa, wrote Disney earlier that there are no standards to determine the danger of gravitational forces experienced by anyone under 48 inches tall on an amusement-park ride. Without proof of safety, the theme park should not be subjecting youngsters to conditions that make some adults pass out or vomit, Samartin said Wednesday. "The thrust of it is -- this is really not appropriate for 4- and 5-year-old kids. This is not the Tea Cups or Dumbo ride," he said, referring to rides in Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom. Daudi's cause of death awaits the outcome of tests that may not be completed until November. "We're waiting to hear from our expert on the result of some studies," Orange-Osceola Medical Examiner's administrator Sheri Blanton said Wednesday. "An approximate time would be another four to six weeks, but hopefully sooner." Previously unreleased Reedy Creek Fire/Rescue records show more than 100 responses by paramedics to Mission: Space between summer 2003 and Daudi's death. Those included nine people who passed out during or immediately after the ride. Eighteen others complained of temporary paralysis, particularly of the hands. Most common was severe dizziness, experienced by 38 riders, followed by 31 people who vomited during or after the ride. Almost none of the 911 calls involved anyone younger than 7, except for toddlers who tumbled out of strollers or fell in the ride's gift shop. The 143 reports were released by Reedy Creek Improvement District, Disney's municipal arm, under the state public-records law.<<
Originally Posted By englishboy here's the better article, sherrytodd. Also I stand corrected. It seems the exact number of paramedic calls to M:S is not over 150. But just under 150. Around 142 (130+10+2), if I read that correctly. ====== Even before a second tourist died this week, Mission: Space was emerging as Walt Disney World's most hazardous ride, with more than twice as many reported illnesses and injuries as any other Disney attraction. Tragedy struck the Epcot ride for the second time when Hiltrud Blümel, 49, of Schmitten, Germany, died Wednesday, a day after she fell ill following a spin on the spaceflight simulator. A 4-year-old boy, Daudi Bamuwamye, died in June after the ride. Blümel's death renewed questions about the safety of the $100 million attraction that simulates a rocket blastoff and landing. But plenty of people were eager to experience the ride, which reopened Thursday morning after an inspection late Wednesday by Disney and state officials. Many of the visitors did not know a tourist had died the day before. Alex Espinoza, 17, rode Mission: Space four times and wasn't worried. "My voice is destroyed from yelling all day," said Espinoza, who was on a trip with his high-school band from Ohio. "It was really, really fun. They warn you numerous times before you get on the ride. We even had a lady step out before we got on because she was just like, 'I can't do this.' " In addition to the two deaths in the past 10 months, 10 people have reported serious illnesses or injuries since the ride opened in the summer of 2003, according to reports Disney filed with the Florida Bureau of Fair Rides Inspections. That's the worst record of all the Disney attractions and doesn't include more than 130 other Mission: Space riders who sought medical attention, according to ambulance records. Second-worst were Space Mountain at Magic Kingdom and the wave pool at Typhoon Lagoon. Each had reported one death and four serious injuries or illnesses since 2003, according to state records. On Mission: Space, riders are met with 13 signs warning of motion sickness, dark and enclosed spaces and spinning. Just before people are loaded into the ride capsules, they are shown a video explaining the ride and are again given a chance to exit the line. All of the warning signs and the video are in English, though Epcot brochures are available in multiple languages at the park's entrance. The brochures briefly describe Mission: Space as the "most thrilling attraction in Disney history" and warn that it may cause motion sickness. "As with any thrill attraction, Mission: Space is not for all guests," said Disney spokeswoman Kim Prunty. Prunty said Thursday that no changes have been made to the ride since the Pennsylvania boy's death last summer, and no further review is planned. There also has been no move to post the warning signs in different languages, she said, but those issues are often reviewed. A ride worker first called 911 to report Blumel's illness at 1:19 p.m. Tuesday, saying that "she seems pretty bad" but was alert. The ambulance arrived 12 minutes later, and she reached Florida Hospital Celebration Health at 2:04. She died Wednesday. The Orange County Medical Examiner is expected to perform an autopsy on Blumel today. Blümel's family asked Disney not to release any information, though Disney reportedly told state authorities that she may have suffered from high blood pressure and other health problems, according to one state source. Robert A. Samartin, a Tampa attorney representing Daudi's family, said their "hearts go out to the family" of Blümel. "They certainly understand how they can go from having a wonderful family vacation to just horror," Samartin said. "It's very tragic." Daudi's death was eventually attributed to a previously undetected heart condition. Since its start, Mission: Space has developed a troubling reputation for making some people sick. A few months after it opened, it became the only Disney ride offering motion-sickness bags. The nonfatal incidents reported to the state included three men and a woman who all complained of chest pains and one man who fainted. Still, millions of people have ridden Mission: Space in three years, and many rave about it as one of the park's top thrills. Not everyone who gets sick makes a formal complaint. Paul Borne, 57, a Norfolk, Mass., sales representative, didn't but said he wished he had, after getting sick following a Feb. 28 spin on Mission: Space. He said he left dizzy, then developed a bad headache that night. The next morning, on the plane home he got sick, tried to head for the lavatory and passed out in the aisle. The flight crew put him on oxygen. When he tried to get up later, he passed out again, and after they landed an ambulance took him straight to a hospital, he said. After two days of tests the doctors agreed with his assumption that the ride probably was to blame, he said. "The ride itself? It was wild. It was dizzy. They had puke bags. I would never have gotten on it if I knew it had puke bags. They give you warnings and stuff, but all the rides have warnings," Borne said. "This thing, they gotta close it down." Mission: Space uses centrifugal force, video and other special effects to make riders feel as if they are in a spaceship blasting off, traveling to Mars and landing. Riders experience four periods, of up to 20 seconds each, when the G-force ranges between 1.6 and 2.3. A G-force of 2 is twice that of gravity. Under Florida law, Walt Disney World, Universal Orlando, SeaWorld Orlando and Busch Gardens Tampa Bay are responsible for their own ride safety, with no direct state oversight. Bureau of Fair Rides inspectors confer with the theme-park-ride officials annually but only inspect rides when invited. Terence McElroy, spokesman for the state bureau, described Wednesday night's inspection as "top to bottom." "Now understand, we don't regulate them. We're not experts on that ride. We don't routinely look at it. So their engineers and safety personnel and inspectors were the ones who actually did it. We did observe that. There did not appear to be anything, to us, that appeared to be out of the ordinary," McElroy said. Disney officials pride themselves on having what they consider the best ride engineers, inspectors and safety authorities in the country. However, that doesn't bring much comfort to advocates of public ride inspections such as Kathy Fackler, founder and president of an organization called SaferParks, which pushed for and got California oversight of theme-park-ride safety in 1999. "All we're asking for is someone who doesn't have huge liability to step in and conduct an independent investigation, and let the public know," she said. The lines for Mission: Space on Thursday -- in the midst of the busy Easter vacation season -- were much shorter than those at Epcot's other two big rides, Soarin' and Test Track. One family debated whether to go on. "We knew it was one of the most popular rides, and I heard about one person who died on it," said Darrell Lipski, who was vacationing from Peoria, Ill., with his wife, Lynette, and their three sons. Lynette Lipski added, "One person we know went on it and was sick all day." The couple were unsure whether they would let their family ride, especially their 7-year-old. "I don't think we want to put him on it," Lynette Lipski said. Henry Pierson Curtis of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report. Scott Powers can be reached at 407-420-5441 or spowers@orlandosentinel.com. Beth Kassab can be reached at 407-420-5448 or bkassab@orlandosentinel.com.
Originally Posted By englishboy Here's a link to the recording of the 911 call. <a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-disney911call041306" target="_blank">http://www.orlandosentinel.com /orl-bk-disney911call041306</a>,0,6749970.mp3file?coll=orl-sports-headlines-college
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <a href="http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/NEWS01/511270302/-1/NEWS06" target="_blank">http://www.floridatoday.com/ap ps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/NEWS01/511270302/-1/NEWS06</a> DAY 1: Roller coaster forces get stronger, faster Central Florida's attractions a thrill a minute -- for the healthy BY JOHN McCARTHY FLORIDA TODAY Want to know what 3 G-forces feel like? Catch a ride on the space shuttle. Want to know what more G's feel like? Head to a Florida theme park. Following the death of a 4-year-old boy and a heart attack suffered by a teenage girl at Walt Disney World this summer, many questioned what kind of forces the rides impart on their passengers. But parks such as those at Walt Disney World, Universal Studios and Busch Gardens have resisted disclosing such information. So, FLORIDA TODAY and its television news partner, WKMG-Local 6, decided to test the effects of Central Florida's scream machines. Reporters rode all of the area's biggest attractions armed with a 3-axis accelerometer, a device used to measure G-forces from all the angles that a twisting, turning roller coaster can throw at a rider. It found strong forces that experts consider safe -- assuming riders are in good health. … In many cases, the rides in Florida exert stronger forces on passengers than the space shuttle puts on astronauts, but only for a split second. The G-forces on a roller coaster are within the limits of what a healthy person can withstand, according to Florida regulations. In some cases, doctors say, the G-forces might not be the worst part of the ride. Instead, just the fear might be enough to give some people a heart attack. A typical person's heart tends to race during a roller coaster ride. That's fine for most people, but cardiologists warn those with heart disease to stay away from coasters. Figie knows a thing or two about roller coasters. As a member of American Coaster Enthusiasts for 26 years, the 58-year-old software engineer has ridden about 500 different coasters in 10 countries. "Actually, the scariest part of most roller coasters is waiting in line wondering what's going to happen," he says. Figie doesn't question the safety of roller coasters. "I worry a lot more driving to the park on the interstate than I do at the park." Limits of force One G is equal to the force of gravity, the force you feel pulling you to the ground as you read this. When your body accelerates in any direction, the motion puts force on your body in the opposite direction of your movement -- the faster, the more G forces. How many G's can a body can safely take? That depends on the direction and duration of the force. As few as 2 or 3 "negative" G's, which force blood to rush to your head in a feet-first downward acceleration, can cause blood vessels in your eyes to burst in just a few seconds. On the other hand, race-car drivers can withstand more than 100 "lateral" -- or horizontal -- G's for a split second during a wreck and walk away. The body doesn't seem to respond to G-forces lasting less than 0.2 seconds. To understand the effect of a strong, but quick, force on your body, hit yourself in the head with the heel of your hand. That can produce as many as 10 G's of force, yet causes no harm because it last just a few milliseconds, according to a study by the Brain Injury Association of America. Florida law says all amusement rides in the state -- including those at theme parks -- must meet standards set by ASTM International, an independent nonprofit group that sets safety and design standards for a wide variety of industries and services. For instance, the limits for the force you feel during a quick upward climb is 6 G's for 1 second. The longer the application of the force, the lower the allowable intensity: 2.5 G's at 12 seconds, for example. Among the findings by FLORIDA TODAY and Local 6: • The highest force measured in a climb was 5.37 Gs, for a split second, at the start of Rock 'n' Roller Coaster at Disney-MGM Studios. The ride then quickly dropped below 2 G's. • The highest sustained force felt from forward acceleration was on Epcot's Mission: Space ride. It exerted force against the rider's chest of more than 1.5 G's for about 14 seconds. That's less than the space shuttle's 3 G's, and well within safety limits. • Busch Gardens' newest sensation, SheiKra, briefly topped 5 G's four times. The 30-year-old Space Mountain at Disney's Magic Kingdom also hit 5 G's, but for less than 1/20th of a second. • The ride with the most dramatic downward acceleration is the Tower of Terror at Disney-MGM Studios, which simulates an out-of-control elevator in a dark, haunted hotel. Eight times, riders experience less than zero G's, with a negative 0.9 G the most intense drop. That's less than half the allowable force. "Obviously, the G-forces are below that of the recognized industry standards," said Becca Bides, spokeswoman for SeaWorld Orlando. Risk lies in riders Sparked by four deaths at amusement parks in August 1999, Congress asked the Brain InjuryAssociation of America to study the effects of amusement park rides. The association's report, released in 2003, found that the rides' forces are safe for healthy people. "I have five kids, and I have no problems with them going on roller coasters," Dr. Gregory O'Shanick, the association's national medical director, said. At risk, however: pregnant women, as well as persons with heart conditions, epilepsy, back or neck injuries, or those who have had surgery recently. The report noted that park operators already warn such people that they shouldn't go on strenuous rides. Such pre-existing conditions, sometimes unknown to the passengers, often are at fault when someone dies or gets hurt on a thrill ride. A 4-year-old who died this summer of cardiac arrest after taking a spin on Mission: Space at Disney had a rare, undiagnosed heart condition that put him at risk during any stressful activity, the Orange County medical examiner said earlier this month. A separate report found that a 12-year-old girl who died of a heart attack at Disney's Typhoon Lagoon water park in August had a viral heart infection. A 16-year-old girl suffered cardiac arrest after riding Tower of Terror in July, but survived. "The risk really lies in the riders, not the ride," O'Shanick says. Meanwhile, a study released by the American Heart Association a day after the Orange County autopsy reports said people with heart conditions should avoid roller coasters. A German cardiologist, Dr. Jurgen Kuschyk, recorded the heart rates of 55 healthy people as they rode roller coasters. He found their hearts raced in a way that could be dangerous for those with heart conditions. Before the study, Kuschyk thought G-forces would increase the riders' stress and set hearts racing. "But the increased G-force didn't have too much of an effect on the heart rate," Kuschyk said. "The heart rate appeared to rise more from psychological stress and fear at the beginning, as riders were climbing or reaching the top. This was surprising. Their heartbeat increased twice or triple the amount in the first part of the ride." ***
Originally Posted By kmovies Autopsy results <a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-bk-tourist041406" target="_blank">http://www.orlandosentinel.com /business/tourism/orl-bk-tourist041406</a>,0,7767964.story?coll=orl-home-headlines A German tourist who collapsed this week after riding the Mission: Space thrill ride at Walt Disney died from bleeding of the brain brought on high blood pressure, according to the Orange-Osceola Medical Examiner's Office. The autopsy of Hiltrud Blümel showed of "severe, long standing high blood pressure," Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Jan Garavaglia said in a statement released Friday afternoon. There were no signs of trauma, she said. The official cause and manner of death will not be determined for four to six weeks until results are obtained from tests on the victim's brain, other organs and blood, the doctor said. Blümel, 49, summoned help at 1:19 p.m. Tuesday, shortly after completing the 4-minute thrill ride that spins up to 160 customers at 2 Gs, twice Earth's gravity, on a mock space flight to Mars, records show. She died Wednesday at Florida Hospital Celebration Health, according to Disney spokesmen. Garavaglia's initial findings of "a hypertensive bleed within the brain" confirmed the same diagnosis made by the doctors who treated Blümel. The death is the second within a year associated with the $100 million ride at Epcot. Last June, Daudi Bamuwamye, 4, of Sellersville, Pa., died while riding with his mother and sister. An autopsy showed that he suffered from a rare and undiagnosed enlargement of his heart.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The death is the second within a year associated with the $100 million ride at Epcot.>> So typical of the Sentinel to throw this in. No evidence that the attraction caused any harm but they have to mention this but don't say that the other death was not caused by the attraction either (just mention the condition). They continue to try and paint WDW negatively.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "So typical of the Sentinel to throw this in. No evidence that the attraction caused any harm but they have to mention this but don't say that the other death was not caused by the attraction either (just mention the condition). They continue to try and paint WDW negatively." Believe it or not, Leemac, I have agreed with EVERYTHING you have posted on this thread with that exception. As a regular lifetime reader of the Orlando Sentinel, I can say without the slighest doubt that they use kid-gloves when writing about WDW. There was nothing untrue in any of today's story or anything else they've published on MS. They certainly don't try to paint WDW negatively, despite what your pals at Disney may tell you. Disney is one of their major advertising accounts and the largest employer in Central Florida. And back to the matter at hand, the local news just reported that the woman suffered from SEVERE high bloodpressure. Again, sounds to me, like Disney can't in anyway be faulted here. People need to take some responsibility or we'll all be walking around in theme parks in bubbles and sitting on rides that don't move. The warnings on MS are, IMHO, extreme. But, hey, I took the over on the 349 posts, so I'm sitting pretty.
