Wow...if this isn't proof Palin is not authentic..

Originally Posted By DAR

I am not focusing on the wrong things. If a private business does bad or you don't like the service they provide you can choose to take your business elsewhere.

If the government screws something up you don't have that luxury.

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

<Well if the SEC actually did its job the first time around there would be no need for this. >

That's not really true. The SEC primarily looks for things that are illegal, not merely unwise.

For instance, before deregulation, there was a wall between investment banks and savings banks. So that if an investment bank went down, it didn't take all those regular people's savings with it. That wall was taken down in deregulation. The SEC couldn't very well stop Citibank from doing what was perfectly legal.

And before deregulation, banks could leverage themselves about 12 to 1. After deregulation, you had banks at 30 to 1 or more. Again, the SEC couldn't stop that - it was entirely legal.

These are the sorts of things that need to go back to what they used to be.

 

Originally Posted By DAR

And what happens if these regulations don't work. Then you add more regulations. That's not how it should work.

 

Originally Posted By ecdc

So what's your solution, DAR? You have a million complaints but no ideas about how to do this. You think government shouldn't be involved but want to ignore the realities of business abuse.

So what should we do?

 

Originally Posted By ecdc

>>I am not focusing on the wrong things. If a private business does bad or you don't like the service they provide you can choose to take your business elsewhere.

If the government screws something up you don't have that luxury.<<

First, having to wait in line at the DMV is not the same level of inconvenience of having the economy collapse.

Second, without the very government regulation you complain about, you can't take your business elsewhere. Governments break up monopolies and ensure competition, not businesses. Over the past 30 years, businesses have done everything they can to avoid having to compete - you know, the very thing that makes capitalism work.

Finally, you can influence what government does, arguably more than you can with business. It's YOUR government after all, which is why I'm so perplexed when people do nothing but bitch and moan about it.

 

Originally Posted By DAR

<<So what should we do? >>

I wrote this in another thread but I'll repeat it:

If you want regulation that's fine, this regulation I'm not against. But eventually it and you have to be careful of this it becomes a case of "Who regulates the regulators?" And if the answer is we do, then we better get some sort of term limits on everybody in Washington. Keep the Presidency where it is. But also make the Senate and House elections the same as the Presidency. This is the way you're going to get any type of real change in Washington.

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

<And what happens if these regulations don't work. Then you add more regulations. That's not how it should work.>

They worked for 70 years. Why would they not work now? Be specific, please.

 

Originally Posted By DAR

You're right the current regulations are working so well. If you want regulations fine, but you have to get rid of the one's that don't work don't keep adding regulation on top of regulation, that is not the solution.

 

Originally Posted By ecdc

>>You're right the current regulations are working so well.<<

They actually were, until we got rid of them thanks to people who demonized government.

 

Originally Posted By DAR

<<Finally, you can influence what government does, arguably more than you can with business. It's YOUR government after all, which is why I'm so perplexed when people do nothing but bitch and moan about it.>>

Okay but when you have the same Senators and Congresspeople being voted in during the respective elections are you really changing things? Term limits, that's reform and regulation I can get behind.

 

Originally Posted By DAR

You can also influence a business, if you don't like what's being offered you go elsewhere, or do you need regulation and the government to tell you to do that.

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

Exactly.

Ay yi yi, DAR, I'm just talking about putting back the ones that were taken away courtesy of Phil Gramm and friends (and signed by Clinton) in 1998. The ones that worked for 70 years to prevent exactly what they were supposed to prevent and only created a problem when they were rescinded.

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

52 for 49.

And term limits are an entirely separate question - if you'd like to debate that, you should start another thread. But term-limited or not, our current Congress should realize the deregulation of 1998 was a huge mistake, and simply put back what was already there and serving us well.

 

Originally Posted By DAR

Okay fine put them back, but don't add new regulations on top of it to make it gum up the whole thing.

 

Originally Posted By dshyates

DAR, you hurt my head. Your infalible illogic is ...well....illogical. You define the term ideologically blinded.

You STILL argue against regulation in the aftermath of the biggest meltdown in 70 years that was caused solely from unregulated activities.

My answer to your "how much regulation is too much?" question is we don't know. But we DO (can I make those CAPS bigger, bold and underlined?) know what is too little regulation. So now let's frickin' do something about it so that millions of people don't lose their retirement funds again.

 

Originally Posted By DAR

You can place all the regulations you want. You can the President and other members of the Senate and House fight for us, the little guy. But in the end we all know that when all the chips fall, the banks will win again. They will still be able to gamble with our money and if they lose, we will pay and they will get bailed out. Why because just about every politician will come to defense of the banks and not us.

Bottom line is we are f--ked.

 

Originally Posted By dshyates

So....your answer is to do nothing and simply let it happen again?

 

Originally Posted By DAR

It's going to happen regardless

 

Originally Posted By Dabob2

It didn't happen for 70 years while the regulations were in place. It did happen after they were taken away.

Hm...

 

Originally Posted By DAR

Yeah but our politicians weren't in the pocket of Big Bank.