Originally Posted By DlandDug >>I believe DLR actually experimented with an "unlimited Fastpass" option for some properties a few years ago - ticketholders with the "unlimited" option on their media could get FPs for a ride regardless of any current outstanding FPs they already held.<< Never heard of this myself. Any documentation? And what, exactly, does this have to do with the issues raised in post #92?
Originally Posted By CDF1 Dug: I believe it was a number of packages offered through AAA travel some number of years back. Sorry - I don't have an exact timeframe. Point of bringing this up was that there had been experiments with the technology involved in the past indicating that Disney does know how to manipulate their ticketing media to provide varying levels of Fastpass availability should they wish to do so. Manipulating Fastpass is nothing new - DLR did it some number of years ago when they allowed "free" Fastpasses to Haunted Mansion (meaning you could get one regardless of if you already had one for another attraction and were in the normal waiting zone for your next FP).
Originally Posted By Indigo This isn't exactly an original thought. However, the problem here seems to be that management views the parks as a hospitality business. It's not, it's entertainment, pure and simple. Show comes first. (okay, Safety comes first, but you know what I mean.) About 20 years ago the Disney way of providing good show and excellence in customer service was adopted by the hospitality industry. Now those in the hospitality industry think they can move seamlessly into Disney's theme park business and run it like a resort. But the businesses remain very different at their core.
Originally Posted By hopemax Here's a link about AAA's enhanced Fastpass, which was originally called "unlimited." It wasn't really unlimited, but you could have one Fastpass for each Fastpass ride at one time. So you could have a Space, Splash, and Indy FP at the same time, but you couldn't have 2 Indys. You could get more, but after the first FP expired. I found another link that said this was available from 2003-2006. It's a Mouseplanet link, and I don't remember if we still have to cut and paste them. http://www.mouseplanet.com/misc.php?pg=fastpass
Originally Posted By ChiMike I was a user of AAA enhanced FP at DLR in 2003. It was nice to have in peak summer, but a complete drag to use, always managing FPs. Looking back it took away from the trip more than it added to it. More than anything it was detrimental to all of the other guests who had less access to FP than my party did. Anyways, I looked at a few boards reacting to Al's account of XPASS and saw a lot of people crying foul. I think this backs up my point that the folks who think FP is wonderful now, won't, once they are on the wrong end of it. The only reason it has support now is that folks feel they get a leg up on other admission paying guests. To me, all it does it add additional stress and hassle into someone's vacation. AAA enhanced FP did just that. If you have it, then you feel compelled to use it, to get value out of it. A lot of people only use FP because if they don't, others will, and then they have to wait unfairly. It's an ugly circle.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Let not forget to congratulate those who are really responsible for this X-pass coming to reality: The fanbois who proclaimed Fastpass to be the 2nd coming in theme park operations. See? While I have vigorously opposed anything that is remotely "preferential" at the parks.. I am pleased to say that this new way of planning your vacation is here to bite your a** hard. Furthermore I wonder if the new service will come with a small fee attached to it, as it should be.
Originally Posted By CDF1 Last two posts very nicely illustrate some of the complexities involved in the whole Fastpass/Xpass issue: 1. To have such a distinction between classes of guests in a themepark brings home some of the realities of the outside world that you go to a theme park to get away from. How will the person who sits in freeway traffic while watching patrons of an Express Toll Lane on that same freeway feel when they are standing in standby lines while somebody with an Iphone full of FPs runs through the FP line on every attraction? Last time in WDW, can remember seeing a couple instances of "Line Rage", particularly at Epcot's Test Track where there clearly was a cast member that had to choose when to let the people in the standby line or the FP line get entrance to the attraction - not a pretty site. 2. On the other hand, there is clearly in the business and entertainment worlds the recognition by those providing services that there are those customers who are willing to pay (and in some cases, pay heavily) for a privileged status and why not offer such persons the opportunity to spend their money (and generate profits for the seller)? Airlines have done it for years with first and business class options; sports teams in the last two decades have clearly found that they can charge far more money for the most desirable seats and they can offer additional options like arena memberships, etc. for upscale facilities that fans will pay for; even state highway systems are finding they can generate profits from toll roads that provide a faster travel experience that customers are willing to pay for (on one such toll road in California, on peak Friday hours customers willingly pay $10 to use a toll lane that only goes 10 miles but saves them about an hour of commute time). 3. Will having faster access or planned access to attractions at a theme park improve a guests experience or could it possibly convert that experience from a leisurely day of exploration into some kind of "attraction shuffle" where after some 3 hours the guest will have ridden all the major rides but missed most all of the nuances of the various themed areas or missed seeing some of the elaborate and interesting queue areas meant to be a part of the ride? When does a good or interesting idea become a bad or perplexing one?
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>2. On the other hand, there is clearly in the business and entertainment worlds the recognition by those providing services that there are those customers who are willing to pay (and in some cases, pay heavily) for a privileged status and why not offer such persons the opportunity to spend their money (and generate profits for the seller)? Airlines have done it for years with first and business class options; sports teams in the last two decades have clearly found that they can charge far more money for the most desirable seats and they can offer additional options like arena memberships, etc. for upscale facilities that fans will pay for; even state highway systems are finding they can generate profits from toll roads that provide a faster travel experience that customers are willing to pay for (on one such toll road in California, on peak Friday hours customers willingly pay $10 to use a toll lane that only goes 10 miles but saves them about an hour of commute time). << And that dynamic has always carried over to WDW in the form of accommodations, dining, tours, merchandise. The difference to me is they are taking an area that was the same price to all guests from all backgrounds (through fixed admission prices) and apply the resort tiers onto it. Once inside the gates, considering fixed admission prices, all guests should be created equal. It should no longer matter if that guest comes from off property, is local, or is at the Grand. This is coming from someone who use to stay at the Deluxe resorts. Disney is trying to use this as a way to adopt what Universal has done with their resort guest privileges. Make no mistake about it. The difference is that Universal has three hotels which all offer the guests the same advantage. Disney has a ton more, plus DVC, that perhaps will all be tiered differently. Scary.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>3. Will having faster access or planned access to attractions at a theme park improve a guests experience or could it possibly convert that experience from a leisurely day of exploration into some kind of "attraction shuffle" where after some 3 hours the guest will have ridden all the major rides but missed most all of the nuances of the various themed areas or missed seeing some of the elaborate and interesting queue areas meant to be a part of the ride? << And that is my biggest issue with FP now, in terms of the park's value. In terms of the Disney experience that the park operators use to pride themselves with. They have given guests an easy-out by letting them skip the lines, but by doing so they have cheapened the whole experience. Guests don't value a ride on an attraction as much because they didn't have to give up as much to ride it. When you look at that through the prism of the fact that classic attractions like BTMR or Splash or ToT are not going anywhere, and that new attractions simply aren't as good, I think this dynamic allows for folks to tire of these classic attractions faster. FP reduces these attractions shelf-life. It also kind of devalues anything that DOESN'T have FP, because then guests first introduction to these offerings might be that they aren't worthy enough to have FP.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>When does a good or interesting idea become a bad or perplexing one?<< When it's implemented in a way to change one's guiding principles or core values.
Originally Posted By Disneybrad "3. Will having faster access or planned access to attractions at a theme park improve a guests experience or could it possibly convert that experience from a leisurely day of exploration into some kind of "attraction shuffle" where after some 3 hours the guest will have ridden all the major rides but missed most all of the nuances of the various themed areas or missed seeing some of the elaborate and interesting queue areas meant to be a part of the ride?" I would say that began in 1985 when the first edition of "The Un-official Guide" was published, and it's minute by minute planned days started turnig guest into schedule Nazi''s on vacation.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>They have given guests an easy-out by letting them skip the lines, but by doing so they have cheapened the whole experience. Guests don't value a ride on an attraction as much because they didn't have to give up as much to ride it.<< I absolutely agree with this. We are doing it everywhere in our society. Guess it's part of the "Walmarting" that Spirit refers to. We work so hard to make everything so cheap and easy, that we don't value it because it takes so little resources (time or money) to get it again if we so choose. It becomes less "special." All these companies do surveys that say, "folks complain about x." Then they proceed to "fix" whatever "x" is. However, that doesn't acknowledge that some things in life are sort of a pain, but they are necessary. Necessary evils, if you will. Sure standing in line is annoying. But it forces you to slow down, enjoy the queue, appreciate the resulting experience/ride, and interact with your surroundings (people/details/ambiance). Once you unwittingly "fast passed" by these other things that complete the disney experience, you've cheapened the whole park. And don't even get me started on the classism of "tiered" systems within the park. At resorts, you are choosing to pay for amenities that are tangible and mostly equal for all of your "peer" guests. Even concierge is all the folks on the same floor. You don't physically co-exist with folks getting more than you. It absolutely crosses a line in my mind when you start to offer different experiences in the park. Tours are one thing. But getting to go on the same attraction at the same park as your peers, but within your eyesight getting a frong of the line pass? It just pisses people off when they should be enjoying the camraderie and community experience of "the happiest place on Earth." (And really Mike, I'm not stalking you. But you are really onto stuff! lol)
Originally Posted By Daannzzz My least favorite trip to Disneyland was in January 1976?. It was cool has rained all night and was a bit sprinkley. The parks was dead and we did all the rides in 3 hours. That is whn I understood that the anticipation while waiting in line was part of the whole picture.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 ^^^^lol! I don't know what a "frong of the line pass" is, but I'm going to have to try one out next time I'm at the world! Typing too fast and not proof reading - my bad.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 116 is for 114. But I think Daannzzz point is a great one and not hypothetical. Real world proof!
Originally Posted By Bolna <<They have given guests an easy-out by letting them skip the lines, but by doing so they have cheapened the whole experience. Guests don't value a ride on an attraction as much because they didn't have to give up as much to ride it.>> I agree with you to a certain extent, the anticipation of an experience is an important part of the whole package. However, not every wait will let you value the attraction even more. I think for everyone there is a breaking point when the wait will be too long for the fun to be gained from the attraction. If you know what the ride is like, you can assess the waiting-time value and just not get into line if the posted wait time is higher than you are willing to wait for it. But if you are a first-timer, you can't. So one might end up very disappointed with something just because the wait was too long. Happened to me the first time I went on Splash Mountain. I nearly did not try it a second time (12 years later than that first experience) because I just remembered being so disappointed with it and it turned out that I actually love it.
Originally Posted By ChiMike ^ And that's even more reason to want FP to disappear. Because I agree with your caveat, and would say a first timer WOULD have those issues when they enter a standby line that is artificially inflated because of FP.
Originally Posted By CDF1 Isn't it enough that WDW resorts guests get either an early entrance or a few extra hours at the end of a day? The 3 extra hours a WDW resort guest gets at the MK park usually allows one to ride Space Mountain, Splash Mountain or BTMRR as many times as you might want with little or no waiting (the last time I was at WDW there was hardly anybody in the queue for BTMRR the last 20 minutes before the extra hours closing time so CMs let us exit and then jump back onto the ride again since there was nobody coming onto the ride). At the end of the trip, that sure seemed like a nice bonus as opposed to what would have been if we had not stayed at the WDW property.
