Originally Posted By DDMAN26 But you're typical gang member isn't going to go through a background check or a gun show.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt OK. So let's just continue to make it easier for "gang bangers" to get their hands on guns because, well The Constitution. Or something.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Exactly. Gang members in Chicago just have to go across the border to Indiana and find some guy selling guns out of his trunk, dozens of which he bought at a gun show without a background check. Thus those guns get to the streets without either the straw purchasers or the gang members having been checked - and that's why they flow so damn freely.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Except this wasn't some lone gun nut. This was a gang related shooting over some bs << Still ... a gang member with what? Oh, a GUN.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>> >>If I want to feel that way, perhaps I will move to Syria<< Or Australia. Look at how tyranny has run amok in Australia due to their draconian gun laws! oh, wait.... <<< Another thing I love here 2oony ... we don't have the right to Hate Speech. Third thing - Socialized Medical Coverage. (If I ever end up in a hospital, I'll never have to worry about a bill!) That's 3 great things here. (Got "Residency" status - Going for Citizenship as early as I can get it - Come October 2014.) Yeah ... we are draconian around here! lol I think America can learn a thing or two from Australia.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Well one way you eliminate gang violence is change the drug laws in this country. Gun violence and the sale of illegal drugs go hand in hand
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>You sound paranoid. Seriously.<<< Not paranoid at all. In fact, I don't own a gun, never have and have no intention of ever owning one, hopefully. However, I have looked at history and as far as I can tell mankind has only gotten worse, not better and more peaceful. Just want to make sure that our options are always open and that no one can ever leave us unable to defend ourselves.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>However, I have looked at history and as far as I can tell mankind has only gotten worse, not better and more peaceful.<< You are reading the wrong history. Humankind is infinitely better. The very notion of "human rights" would be foreign even just a few centuries ago. The peace, stability, and security the average American enjoys would absolutely boggle the mind of nearly all humans born sometime before 1850. Modern notions of respect for life, of self-actualization, of a right to leisure and happiness, these are concepts that prior humans would not comprehend. No one needs a gun in the United States in 2013. They think they do because other people have guns, so everyone thinks they're about to be victimized. It escalates like a micro-cold war so that everybody's armed. It's the exact antithesis of what the NRA claims: More guns doesn't equal less violence (shock!). It means the exact opposite.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 And just wondering where the "community leaders" are condemning this violence. Oh that's right there's nothing in it for them
Originally Posted By Dabob2 A quick google search netted statements from the mayor, the police chief, local clergy, and yes local community leaders all condemning the violence. You can take that bizarre chip off your shoulder any time now.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 You know which two individuals I'm referring to, so save your racist remark
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Why is it that every time there's violence in a black community you chime in with the same old Sharpton/Jackson BS? The injured people in Chicago's shooting last night are Americans just like the white victims in Sandy Hook. Gun violence is everyone's problem no matter where it takes place in America.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45755884/#53065627">http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4575...53065627</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc >>You know which two individuals I'm referring to, so save your racist remark<< That Jackson and Sharpton don't always conform precisely to your preconceived expectations for how they should behave does not mean they are horrible publicity seeking racists. Everyone doesn't have to conform to your notions of acceptable behavior to have well-meaning intentions. It also doesn't mean that they don't feel bad about what has happened. You act and speak as if these two men owe you something. They owe you statements. They owe you a certain way of acting, otherwise you're entitled to be outraged. Let's be clear: They don't owe you or anyone else jack sh*t. Make peace with it. Let it go.
Originally Posted By ecdc Oh, so Sharpton did speak out. Of course, what he said won't be good enough for his detractors. He needs to say exactly what they want to hear, with exactly the right tone of voice, and exactly the right body language. Otherwise, he's just a publicity hunting racist. Because it's totally cool for white people to lecture black people on exactly how they should talk about race. And if those black people don't talk about race in a way white people approve of, why then it's the black people who are the racists. That makes perfect sense!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>You are reading the wrong history. Humankind is infinitely better. The very notion of "human rights" would be foreign even just a few centuries ago. The peace, stability, and security the average American enjoys would absolutely boggle the mind of nearly all humans born sometime before 1850. Modern notions of respect for life, of self-actualization, of a right to leisure and happiness, these are concepts that prior humans would not comprehend. No one needs a gun in the United States in 2013. They think they do because other people have guns, so everyone thinks they're about to be victimized. It escalates like a micro-cold war so that everybody's armed. It's the exact antithesis of what the NRA claims: More guns doesn't equal less violence (shock!). It means the exact opposite.<<< OMG...where does one get a pair of blinders that work that well. You don't even have to even go back very far to see that as individuals, society is far more nasty then they once were. Counties, ok, maybe there are fewer major tyrants in the world, but if I had the time to look it up, that probably is untrue as well. In this country in 2013 you are correct. We don't need guns or a way to defend ourselves. Perhaps the reason for that is because many forces know that we can defend ourselves if we must. Paranoia, maybe or it just might be the ability to understand that without that ability someone with a weapon, of any sort can just casually walk in and there would be absolutely nothing we could do about it. We may never need to or we many never want to, but, the second amendment, as it stands now, makes it impossible for anyone or any group from knowing just how much resistance we might be capable of. Read your history, see what happened to people that couldn't defend themselves. Don't sight me examples of places like Australia or any other non-power and tell me how good things are without that ability, because first you have to factor in how much others might want to possess what we have. Look at what actually did happen in the past, not what hasn't happened yet. Remind yourself how calm and tranquil we all were on September 10, 2001. Then think about how fast that all changed on September 11, 2001. If you take tomorrow for granted, you may or may not live to regret it. In the meantime, with or without guns crazy people will kill others even if it is with a rock. Some restriction would be a good idea, but I don't think they will be that effective, perhaps better mental health care would help. If it comes to criminal use, please wake the hell up, Did outlawing alcohol eliminate booze. Are we going to outlaw guns and then demand that Canada do the same thing? Are we going to build custom houses every three feet along the border or decide that criminal will just do what the law requires and come into the country with weapons through customs instead of crossing the thousands of ungraded borders, unseen and free to do what they want. At what point do we realize that only law abiding people care about the laws. It's a ridiculous waste of time to advocate anything other then basic common sense adjustments. Since you brought up the paranoia angle, do you honestly think that jumping up and down, waving your hands and yelling about the need to control guns is going to make the paranoid any less or any more paranoid? Human rights isn't even part of this discussion. We stopped hanging blacks in the south so we are a much better people. No we are a more enlightened and educated people, but that doesn't do anything other than define social behavior. It doesn't do anything to alter the core hate that is still visible but perhaps more subtle. I hate to see the degree that individual people will resort to out of anger or stupidity, but, it is still people handling the guns, people handling the cars that kill hundreds every single day none of those objects do that on their own.
Originally Posted By mawnck #39: Everything you know is wrong. A point-by-point rebuttal would be a waste of time I could be spending doing useful stuff.
