Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider ^^ He possibly is gay but that means nothing. A gay man can still joke around with straight girls. The girl may have been a lesbian for all we know. It doesn't change anything, it depends on what he felt.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I understand that sexual harrasment is a serious thing, but unless the recieving party of the touch is offended, I don't see where there is a problem. If the witches were offended by this, they should have talked to a manager there, or gone to city hall. Otherwise, this is a non-issue, IMO.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I also should add that, the witches did not hear what the woman said... it may have not been a sexual thing at all; they only interpreted it that way.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<And I could sink to your level and make a similar comment about your state here but I won't >> And what level would that be? You mean like calling another state's anti rape laws bizzare. As for Citizens Arrest. The law dosen't allow for the police to make personal interpetations. If you make a "citizens arrest" the police are legally obligated to follow through. No questions asked. Otherwise they are liable. As least some of us are not under the misguided impression that ONLY the police have the authority and ability to ENFORCE laws. As for the witches they were and/or are cm they know the rules while on stage.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider No questions asked? Are you insane? You realize we have false arrest laws and unlawful detention? No questions asked? So what's stopping you from going and arresting in the street you don't like "no questions asked"? I think you've seriously overstepped the boundaries of citizen's arrest, atleast in most states. Maybe I'm wrong but what your saying makes no sense at all. They are MORE liable if they do follow through. Not only does it make the police and the person performing the citizen's arrest more liable to become sued for false arrest but in the case of a legitimate citizen's arrest it puts the actual court case and conviction at liability. There's a reason why police go through a lot of background and police work before making an arrest and it's to both protect them from lawsuits and to ensure they have the best case at trial. In Georgia if Billy Bob on the corner testifies that he saw Joe Bob commit a crime with no other evidence is that considered "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt" in court? Because it sure isn't in just about any other court house in this court. Also, I'm not sure how someone patting someone on a clothed rear end is considered "rape" ? >>rape 1) n. the crime of sexual intercourse (with actual penetration of a woman's vagina with the man's penis) without consent and accomplished through force, threat of violence or intimidation (such as a threat to harm a woman's child, husband or boyfriend). What constitutes lack of consent usually includes saying "no" or being too drunk or drug-influenced for the woman to be able to either resist or consent, but a recent Pennsylvania case ruled that a woman must do more than say "no" on the bizarre theory that "no" does not always mean "don't," but a flirtatious come-on. "Date rape," involves rape by an acquaintance who refuses to stop when told to. Defense attorneys often argue that there had to be physical resistance, but the modern view is that fear of harm and the relative strengths of the man and the woman are obvious deterrents to a woman fighting back. Any sexual intercourse with a child is rape and in most states sexual relations even with consent involving a girl 14 to 18 (with some variation on ages in a few states) is "statutory rape," on the basis that the female is unable to give consent. 2) v. to have sexual intercourse with a female without her consent through force, violence, threat or intimidation, or with a girl under age. Technically, a woman can be charged with rape by assisting a man in the rape of another woman. Dissatisfied with the typical prosecution of rape cases (in which the defense humiliates the accuser, and prosecutors are unable or unwilling to protect the woman from such tactics), women have been suing for civil damages for the physical and emotional damage caused by the rape, although too often the perpetrator has no funds. Protection services for rape victims have been developed by both public and private agencies. On the other side of the coin, there is the concern of law enforcement and prosecutors that women whose advances have been rejected by a man, or who have been caught in the act of consensual sexual intercourse may falsely cry "rape."<< <a href="http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=1718&bold=" target="_blank">http://dictionary.law.com/defa ult2.asp?selected=1718&bold=</a>|||| <a href="http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/rape" target="_blank">http://legal-dictionary.thefre edictionary.com/rape</a> The definition is also being extended to forced penetration of any orifice of either male or female and also women who insert things into men can be considered rape - but all of the definitions of rape involve pentration. How do you get patting on the rear end as falling into rape laws? Do you really believe that that CM raped that man? As for my comment about states don't worry about it, it would've got me ADMINed as your comment should've
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Toad I'm really not terribly surprised with your attitude, heck in your state its perfectly legal to be ( alledgedly ) drunk and drive off a bridge at night allowing your passenger to drown. And then leave and not notify the authorities till the next morning< Now that is some funny stuff -- and then the same person still is judging others 35 years later --amazing
Originally Posted By danyoung >As for Citizens Arrest. The law dosen't allow for the police to make personal interpetations. If you make a "citizens arrest" the police are legally obligated to follow through. No questions asked. Otherwise they are liable.< Sorry, I'm with Toad here - this doesn't make much sense. You seem to be saying that a citizen can make an arrest, wait for the cop to show up, the then the cop has to follow through, no matter how meritless the original citizen's claim? Not a chance, not in any state. The officer has to make the judgement as to what's enforceable or what's just plain silly. And an officer who was taking up the court's time and the government's money to run a rump toucher through the system isn't going to remain an officer for long. That easily falls under the heading of a meritless case. Nope, in this situation the only one who could have pursued legal action would have been the guy, the touch-ee, if he felt offended enough. And all laws aside, it's a silly world we live in that would allow an act like this to be ramped up into a lawsuit.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Just for the record, ducklings, I wasn't the least bit offended by what we witnessed, myself. As a matter of fact, I'd LOVE to have a job where the men groped me, harrassed me for 'special favors' and so on. In the meantime, I hope you all know how dreadful it is for me--having to live with a certain up tight sister who sees smut everywhere she looks. If she had HER way, all of us would be branded with scarlet letters!!
Originally Posted By danyoung I'd have to say that, while I can't see any legal action coming from this or any one needing to lose their job, it's still inappropriate behavior for an onstage employee, and should be corrected.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Again if the law in Georgia says its illegal to touch someone else's butt without their permission, and there are no police around to arrest, and I or someone else chooses to do a citizens arrest until a police officer shows up, and when the police officer shows up the officer is obligated by law to arrest. If someone committed a crime and then the police failed to arrest that person for the crime then the police officer can and will be held accountable. The LAW is not subject to personal interpretation by police officers.
Originally Posted By danyoung >The LAW is not subject to personal interpretation by police officers.< Of COURSE it is. It is in every state and happens every day. To use an earlier example, jaywalking is flat out illegal - against the law. It is rarely enforced, but it's an infraction that happens so often that true enforcement would totally clog the system. Every cop everywhere makes decisions based on the situation, the people involved, the severity of the infraction. There is no absolute standard that says a cop has to enforce EVERY law EVERY time - it's just not feasable. In this case, if officers were called, I'd guess they'd look at the situation, see that there was no grabbing or groping, but just a swat on the butt in passing, and tell every one to behave and go home.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney ''As for Citizens Arrest. The law dosen't allow for the police to make personal interpetations. If you make a "citizens arrest" the police are legally obligated to follow through. No questions asked. Otherwise they are liable.'' You would be shocked by what people can do with a 'private citizen's arrest' ... there's astory here I'd love to tell, but can't. But, suffice to say, what I once thought was something that merely was the stuff of shlocky TV crime dramas can make a mess of a person's life. And, yes, the police do have to follow through no matter how absurd the situation. Then it's up to the DA and/or the courts to sort the crap out.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney Oh, and back to the original post ---- at WDW you get what you pay for when it comes to CMs. That's why a good 1/4 of them aren't fit to work at a local burger joint, and yes that's my opinion and it ain't changing. I will say that in the past year I've heard CMs utter obscenties (some really crude ones including the national 'f' word) many times within earshot of guests. If this were 15 or 20 years ago,, they would have been fired on the spot with no questions asked. Just a different era ...but hey, I did hear they are making Cindy's an all character experience with no discounts and four choices for $33.99. So don't any of you 'oldtimers' try and tell me that WDW has lost its magic.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <a href="http://oldweb.uwp.edu/academic/criminal.justice/citarr.htm" target="_blank">http://oldweb.uwp.edu/academic /criminal.justice/citarr.htm</a> this should help some with the definition and rules....again the police do not become the judge on the site...that is for the courts
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost So, in other words. A citizens arrest isn't worth the gun powder to blow it to oblivion. The risk to the person making the arrest is huge and the repercussions are mind boggling. And if anyone thinks that the police do not make judgements, I would like to know what color the sky is in your world. The paperwork and time required to process an arrest is not to be believed and you can bet that police will make a judgement, on the spot, if the situation warrants an arrest or not. Why shouldn't it be that way? The average citizen has no detailed knowledge of what constitutes a crime. One of the biggest factors would have to be motive and intent. Not knowing the full story of the incident in question here I would say that it is pretty presumptuous of anyone to be judge and jury and be sure that firing or extreme punishment is warranted. Think for a minute how you would feel if something you did was interpreted to be criminal and judged you folks in the manner that you have been judging this incident. If the person that this happened too does not consider this to be objectionable then it is not, plain and simple. Let's move on to topics that we at least know something about, like, oh, I don't know, maybe Disney or something.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider First I'm sorry if the legal definition of "Rape" offended anyone, I posted it because someone Kennesaw Tom was asserting the girl was in violation of anti-rape lows for touching the guy's behind which I find rather exagerrated. Second, police officers DO make judgements - have you ever heard of "Discretion" ? Police aren't even obligated to make an arrest if they see someone murder someone in most states believe it or not (but that doesn't mean there'd be a decent cop alive who wouldn't) The two primary laws where an arrest is mandatory are R.O. violations and in some places Domestic Assault. Can a police officer get in trouble for not making an arrest that in reason they should of? Yes, but they can defend against it. Discretion goes well beyond what the general public knows in terms of an officer's actions - they have the most say in the fate of an offender than any other actor in the CJS with prosecutor's being a close second. Why you ask? Because a) discretion and b) they are the gateway to the system, and if they decide not to put you in the system then you'll never be subject to prosecutors, judges, or anyone else. You also better be darn sure that when you make a citizen's arrest you KNOW the law because one little mistake or misinterpretation and you could be the one in a world of legal hurt.
Originally Posted By Lewis Goofy >>at WDW you get what you pay for when it comes to CMs. That's why a good 1/4 of them aren't fit to work at a local burger joint, and yes that's my opinion and it ain't changing.<< I know that is your opinion but what an insult to all the hard working CMs at WDW. I know we have a few bad apples amongst us but 1/4 that are not good I do not think so. WDW has the most comprehensive training of CMs then any other Disney theme park location. We also offer the highest pay and benefits package of any Disney theme park location. The hourly wage offered is the highest of all central Florida theme parks and makes working for WDW attractive to a lot of Central Floridians and college students from across the country.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <If the person that this happened too does not consider this to be objectionable then it is not, plain and simple. Let's move on to topics that we at least know something about, like, oh, I don't know, maybe Disney or something.< so you get your opinion and then let's move on ? not how it works... plenty of things are still breaking the law even though someone does not file a complaint -- domestic violence a perfect example, it does not have to be witnessed by the police- they just have to be told it did happen, that's why we have courts- so let's not try and trivialize the law ....many victims opt not to press charges, however they don;t have to. and regardless of the exact law on this, you don't find this objectionable in a theme park behavior. If not, then I ask you the same smart question, what color is the sky in your world.
