Originally Posted By utahjosh <But that's the problem. Anything atheists do is seen as "opposing" religion. Anything. So you don't want atheists to do anything because it's seen as rude.> Incorrect. Here, I'll design one for you: <0> There ya go. The middle represents 0, or the lack of something. It's not offensive to me.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip You have the right to do a lot of stuff in this country that you SHOULDN'T do. It would be legitimate free speech to put a sign in buses saying, "Fat people cost you money!” There is even statistical evidence that says it's true. But it would be in very poor taste. So are the "no God" signs.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Several years ago, we had billboards for a local health club chain picturing an alien invasion of planet earth, and the tag line read "when they come, they'll eat the fat ones first!". It raised some eyebrows, but there they were for all to see.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip There are things that just can't be known, and God is as reasonable an explanation as any. Scientists say that the "big bang" created the universe. I'll buy that. But who/what created that densely packed mass of matter that exploded in the "big bang"? Give me an answer that makes any more sense than God.
Originally Posted By gadzuux A shot of the billboard ... <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/e/a/1999/02/16/NEWS1474.dtl&o=0" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/....dtl&o=0</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>How can they express their beliefs publicly through symbols without being seen as just "anti-religious?"<< Well, they would have to come up with some symbol first. There really isn't one that I know of. There are crosses and the peace sign and any number of symbols people have. There is the humorous Flying Spaghetti Monster symbol. And clearly, no one is stopping them from producing billboards mocking the basic concept of Christmas. It just becomes a question of if the goal of atheists is to simply live free of religion or if they are out to convert others to their system of belief and cast all religion out for everyone.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I don't think anyone is trying to end religion, just put it in it's proper perspective. There's a sense of entitlement among christians that EVERYBODY must accomodate them and their beliefs. If someone is opposed to creches in the public town square, they're just a crank. If someone thinks the ten commandments is an inappropriate display for a courthouse, there's something wrong with them. If public prayers for salvation precede school meetings or sporting events, what's the problem? And we see lots of proclamations about how the US is a "christian nation" despite any and all evidence to the contrary. The assumption seems to be that anyone with beliefs outside of traditional christianity needs to pipe down and capitulate to the prevailing zeitgeist. So perhaps the goal of this advertising campaign is to (slightly) empower and affirm the people who don't subscribe to the idea that christmas is about celebrating the birth of the baby jesus.
Originally Posted By mele It just feels like people who have to make these public statements are doing more than wanting to live their lives free from religion. They feel the need to speak out against religion, too. It's not enough to have their own beliefs but they often feel the need to lash out/speak out against religion. That's what doesn't appeal to me about this sort of thing. It's not enough to be a non-believer, they have to put out energy combatting religion, too. That's just a negative way to be and part of being a non-believer is getting believers to understand that we can be happy and have strong morals w/o religion. This seems to go against that message, imo.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I don't think anyone is trying to end religion<< I disagree. I think the intent of these sorts of campigns isn't about "Just let me alone with your religion." It's about "Your religion is nutty and false and I want you to start thinking straight." There are a few authors for example who clearly hate religion and blame it for most of the ills in the world. They are not content to just leave it be -- they feel they have a moral obligation to try and do what they can to get rid of religion completely. So, yeah, there are some people who would be quite happy to end religion.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <It just becomes a question of if the goal of atheists is to simply live free of religion or if they are out to convert others to their system of belief and cast all religion out for everyone.> That's what the core of this situation is.
Originally Posted By ecdc There's a difference between atheists and antitheists. That's part of the problem; religious people don't even understand the definitions they're working with.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I wonder if some of the atheists know that they're actually espousing antitheist ideas?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***There are things that just can't be known, and God is as reasonable an explanation as any. Scientists say that the "big bang" created the universe. I'll buy that. But who/what created that densely packed mass of matter that exploded in the "big bang"? Give me an answer that makes any more sense than God.*** I would argue that "God" is probably the LEAST reasonable explanation. Think about it objectively. "I don't understand how/why xyz happened, therefore the logical explanation must be that a magical being did it" That's how they came up with all the "Sun Gods" and "Rain Gods" that explained the unexplainable before science actually explained it. And where are those gods now?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***<But that's the problem. Anything atheists do is seen as "opposing" religion. Anything. So you don't want atheists to do anything because it's seen as rude.> Incorrect. Here, I'll design one for you: <0> There ya go. The middle represents 0, or the lack of something.*** Yes, because atheists lack something. Nice false assumption. ***It's not offensive to me.*** I would say it's offensive to me, but frankly I couldn't care less what religious people thought of atheism or any other spiritual issue if they would just stop politicizing and shoving their religion down my throat.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***<It just becomes a question of if the goal of atheists is to simply live free of religion or if they are out to convert others to their system of belief and cast all religion out for everyone.> That's what the core of this situation is.*** And yet you're in favor of door to door "missions" trying to convert people to YOUR way of thinking. Why the hypocrisy?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <And yet you're in favor of door to door "missions" trying to convert people to YOUR way of thinking.> Because because I consider every person a brother or sister. And I love them and I know the way to true and eternal happiness and want to share it with them. You asked.
