Originally Posted By ecdc >>It would be interesting to see if Josh or ecdc is right about that aspect. Are religious people more or less okay with a live and let live, make your own choices approach? Or are there more people who feel the need to guide others away from agnosticism and into faith?<< I can only guess at this. It's just based on the evidence I've seen and the anecdotal experiences I've had in my own life. I tend to think people are pretty easy-going about people of other faiths, so long as we're talking about the same God. Christians will most likely be ok with other Christians. Is the same true with Muslims? Or atheists? I'll admit, I could be wrong about this. Perhaps being part of the Mormon community, which absolutely, unequivocally IS an exclusionary faith (meaning, they believe only they are right and only Mormons can go to heaven) has warped my perception. I'm open to the possibility that I'm way off on this. I see the way my wife's family responds to us and it pains me. I reach out to old missionary friends on Facebook, and they ask me about my Atheism, and then they suddenly unfriend me within a few days. I watch my mother yelling at me when my children tell her they don't believe in Jesus. I'm told, as if I was a seven year old, that not going to church is ok, but that I just HAVE to believe in God. (Mothers just get crazier and crazier, don't they?) I see polls that say Americans would not vote for an atheist. They would literally vote for every other class of citizen before they would vote for an atheist. Politicians like George Bush and Mitt Romney say that atheists shouldn't even really be considered American. Is this an accurate reflection of the feeling of Americans? Or is it a small, but very vocal minority, coupled with my interactions with my own family and acquaintances that's given me this perspective? I'm happy to hear why it's the latter, but I need some strong evidence.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It is interesting. I used to think that in California, it was not a big issue (other than my 3rd grade teacher who would always punish me for questioning whether god exists). However, on my last trip to California, we came across a fair few people in our travels (especially in Central California - former Okies?) who would talk about children's books etc. based on the bible. WE thought it would be funny to say, that's nice, but we are pagan. Wow, I never saw a donut shop clear out so quickly, I'm not kidding. And I have had "kind friends" in the US claim that my questioning and political motivations suggest I am looking for Jesus. When we then go down the debate and I question their faith, it normally ends with them cutting me off, or telling me they are praying for my soul. I used to at least feel they were being compassionate, now it annoys me. And on facebook, I see so many statuses revering what a local preacher says and signs that people have more faith (ok, that's the point) in their religion than their country. Or talking about god's will or god's plan, rather than taking control of their own lives. Perhaps the internet really warps perceptions. It is not a big issue here in Europe, heck we had 111,000 odd people register as Jedi in the last census. We were 2 of them. Though I was annoyed as they converted them to athiest when we are in fact agnostics.
Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/22/kennedy.abortion/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...dex.html</a> And then there's this.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Wow, I never saw a donut shop clear out so quickly, I'm not kidding.<< Donuts are holey.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think I do understand to a certain extent what it is like to be in a minority position. I am a short man, and short men are definitely at a disadvantage in the U.S. Most women would not date a man who was shorter than they are. Statistics consistently show that tall men on average earn more than short men after removing other variables such as education and occupation. Short men are subtly discriminated against in many ways on a daily basis. But so what? Life is not fair, and you cannot force it to be fair. You just deal with it. Would it be really stupid to put signs on a bus saying, "Tall people waste space"? Yes it would. It serves no point and would accomplish nothing. I feel pretty much the same about the "there is no God" signs. By the way... one thing I found enormously amusing is that the signs claim there is no God, but still capitalize God. WTF??
Originally Posted By DAR Here's how I've viewed religion over the last few years of my life. I'm not really crazy about organized religion anymore. I rarely go to church unless it's a holiday or wedding, funeral, baptism. But it doesn't shake my faith in God so I still believe. As for something like evolution I come from the mindset of why can't it be both. I believe in the whole creation theory, but what if evoultion occured in the six days of creation as documented in the Bible. And the seventh day where God rested is where man finally evolved. Now understand that days is not the normal 24 hour cycle we know today but rather each representing millions of years each. My faith and belief is personal so I won't ever try to sway anybody who doesn't believe in God, if you don't believe, you don't believe. All I ask is the same respect by not asking me to also abandon my faith in God.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka For what it's worth, DAR, I haven't ever felt that you were pushy with your religion. I figured your views were pretty much how you summed them up in your post.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Seems possible DAR. I am cool with people on the live and let live cycle. It is the ones who claim "they know" that I have a problem with. How do they? And how many people born on the other side of the globe be wrong. I am cool with the metaphorical idea of a god who created the universe and then moved on to see what would happen like a lab experiment. Maybe he/she/it zips in and does stuff occassionally; maybe never, maybe they simply watch; maybe the entity has died; maybe the entity has moved on to a different creation; or maybe we were just nature taking it's course without a design. I don't know, and I really doubt anyone else does. But many live by the theories they want to believe in. I strive in the hopes that people will open their minds. My mama brought me up to not discuss religion or politics. But I was also brought up as a social scientist. I am more inclined to want to ask questions and explore knowledge than to just be a gentleman. Sorry mama.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But I am a firm believer in liberty and the freedom of speech and that was what this was about. It's funny though, when I took offence at the campaign "Some people are gay, get over it", many thought it was genious. Personally I thought it was trying to pick a fight. On this campaign, I am on the other side of the fence. But in both cases I respect the rights (and understand the assertions) both groups are making.
Originally Posted By DAR <<My mama brought me up to not discuss religion or politics>> Well at least you're not a cowboy.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF Mrs. Betty Bowers explains it all re: the Mormons... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E4M39FRIGc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...M39FRIGc</a>
Originally Posted By Mr X ***By the way... one thing I found enormously amusing is that the signs claim there is no God, but still capitalize God. WTF??*** Why not? You capitalize the names of other fictional characters such as Santa Claus and Darth Vader, don't you?
