Originally Posted By trekkeruss This topic has gone quiet all of the sudden. I guess that is an admission of defeat.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd No, there are always some new children born in the world, who have to learn what is important and what is not. Others, i'd say the majority, know instinctively what is right and what is wrong, no matter what a manipulator tries to tell them. They know the adage "Pearls before swine" and that it means, if you scatter pearls with the feed, a hog will eat the feed without knowing the monetary value of the pearls. Hopefully a human scrounging among the feed can tell the difference between a kernel of corn and a pearl. ***It might be harder cause they named a piece of tasteless corn the black pearl.*** Obviously, the people wanting to put in figures from the critically panned, and soon forgotten movie(it bombed on tv the other night), into a cherished shrine of an original work of art, Pirates of the Caribbean, do not know the difference. Walt's art. They want to destroy the maker's art. Just so you understand they have already destroyed Walt's art, ever since they took over from those, who respected and understood the necessity of maintaining Walt's legacy at Disneyland. It would take pages to list all the major and minor damage inflicted by these insensitve hooligans. The destruction of tomorrowland, the removal of the subs, the death from the columbia, the death on Big Thunder, the destruction of the audioanimatronic bears is all traceable to the same ignorant executives, who have no respect for Walt, or anything, only themselves. Enough of Walt's art has already been destroyed by the ignorant pigs, who can not tell the difference between pearls and corn. Value and eating. They shout they know what business economics are about, yet they have no idea what has value. The only value they can understand is their own greed. They have no values, but selfishness. Sorry, but i wan't born to be a martyr for the ignorant, so i'll be going... for today, hee hee. I will tell you the truth, even though you already know it, and if my attention drifts towards talking to someone more intelligent than you, well, i get more done with intelligent adults, than with bratty children. I don't mind intelligent children, but not ignorant brats. Bratty children, who have so little to offer back can't even hold their own attentions for long. As i get older i find more pleasure in finding the rare, and the unique. So, i've been hanging around slightly more intuitive people. But when you are truthful, like i try to be, you end up meeting those few intelligent ones, and then they slip away. The trick is not to scare them off. It's hard to switch to the intimate mode, when the thugs are allowed to do so much bashing in public. The more they try to lower the standards of human existence, the easier it is to shut everyone out. Good friends always come back though.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<i'd say the majority, know instinctively what is right and what is wrong>> Since the majority seems to think that the changes to PotC are welcome, I guess you must not be able to make that distinction.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Destruction of art isn't put to a vote. It is only supported by manipulators, and people of low values.
Originally Posted By DLFAN79 ""Destruction of art isn't put to a vote. It is only supported by manipulators, and people of low values."" Like Braverman,et al. Only THREE ppl work at WDI. Baxter, Jacobson, and Irvine-Allison.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Tastefully done would be to add the new technology to enhance, embellish the old figures and scenes, as with the brilliant floating Madame Leotta head. The ride stopped and i stared at the floating globe with the talking head. I swear i could not see the strings or stick making it float. The film strip of Madame Leotta had not changed in the nearly 40 years since it's conception. The old film strip of the same actress had been digitalized, the sound digital and crisp and clean, new bulps in the spot lamps around the seance room, but the scene and the artists conceptions had not changed. Perfect. I went back the next week to see it, but Haunted Mansion had been desecrated by the sick and ignorant. The same pathetics that want to destroy Pirates so desperately. The head wasn't floating, the shadow playing the piano effect was gone, with nothing in it's place. Instead it was just garish, unimaginative colors, hatefully splashed on purpose to disrespect the Haunted Mansion, and the Men who thought up the canvas. The canvas these hateful children were now hand painting on with a lot of orange neon paint. I think the most hateful part is having to hear the iritating sound track instead of the brilliant classic orignal. The irritating La la lala la and something about raping christmas, which horrorfies me, by the way. I don't know why they would allow such lyrics in a queue. The scaryness of Haunted Mansion Holliday does not come from the love of ghosts, or of Walt's legacy, but from the love of christmas money. Truely scary.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss My ONLY gripe with HMH is that for a once-in-a-lifetime visitor, they wouldn't get to see the original attraction. HM didn't open until 1969. I know Walt had been dreaming of this attraction for many years, and that a lot of the Imagineers who worked on it worked very close to Walt, but many things happened in the three years between when he died, and when the attraction finally debuted. So it could be argued that the HM is not truly a work of Walt's, but of the company. I still think that adding elements from the movies into PotC will be great. I believe these will be tasteful enhancements, just as you believe the changes to HM have been tasteful.
Originally Posted By DLFAN79 ""So it could be argued that the HM is not truly a work of Walt's, but of the company."" OH do NOT even go there!!! Walt had APRROVED the look of the Mansion, its location, the story, apprently SOME scenes (stretch room), and even the not built Musuem of the Weird. Just because they did not begin BUILDING the show till 68 doesnt NOT make it a "walt attraction". HM has as much Walt as Pirates has. It was built by the SAME people also.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Okay, give me one reason why it's preferable to desecrate these original works of art by Walt. A justifiable reason. If you could give me a reason that actually makes destroying instead of preserving, and enhancing a vision of art, preferable, then tell me. The reason you are here today on these boards is because of the original works of art by Walt, as pursued by Walt and the technicians, the men, he trusted and hired. It was these men,and mary blair, and their brilliant creations that have motivated you to come here, and write. You wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the vision of these brilliant, truely artistic men, who understand life, which you can not. That's why you love Disneyland. Why it's unique. It's not because of the people who run human resources at the disney company that has attracted your attention enough that you would actually come here and write something. To want to change Walt's art tells more about the person wanting to make the changes. It shows a need for attention, a desperate need to be respected. But respect must be earned. Instead of doing the hard work these undeserving see all the attention isn't going to them and their unimaginative existances. Instead everyone seems to be facinated by a work of art like Pirates, and not the people in charge of it. In the old days those in charge and the creators were the same. Now, those in charge, who are not the creators, when they are in the spotlight, these executives, instead of discussing what they watched on tv the other night, are being asked to talk about someone else, Walt. Insead of discusing themselves like they want to, they have to talk about a crazy brilliant artist, Walt. What do they know about Walt, or art in general? Nothing, obviously. They don't seem to understand, no one cares about what they regurgitate from watching tv. People care about the hard work that goes into a creation. No one said art, and entertainment would be easy. If it was easy it wouldn't be entertaining anymore. Well, then how can these unqualified executives possibly compete? I mean they would first have to leave their offices and go out and find, and deal with, obsessed artists. Dealing with them and doing a lot of hard work to accomplish a new ride, a new work of art, put in a new place. A new ride in it's own place, where it belongs, instead of forcing it into a place it does not. Instead, the executives ignorantly preach lower standards, so they can petend and act like they are artists too. Their philosophy is head em up, and move em out. Mooo. Mooo. Sick There is no reason that would make it preferable to put johnie "the actor" depp into a work of art by Walt, finished almost 40 years previously. And to throw away the granddaddy of all existing disney pirate ships, for the unimaginative, cheap black pearl... so sad. Again, it's like putting a mustache on the mona lisa. But you can't and never will find a reason why it should be done that can be justified. Instead your greed will keep you nit picking at the truth of reality, instead of seeing the baseless decision to change the art. What comes across to the observing guest more than anything is the sad personality of those in need to control others, who are now in charge of the disney company. Their belittling of Walt, after making so much money celebrating Walt, and the 50th of Walt's park, just shows how inferior they truely are.
Originally Posted By idleHands "I went back the next week to see it, but Haunted Mansion had been desecrated by the sick and ignorant. The same pathetics that want to destroy Pirates so desperately." Interesting. I had no idea until now, that the creatives who gave us the award-winning Haunted Mansion Holiday, Disneyland Entertainment Productions, was the same team in charge of the upcoming rehab of PotC. <a href="http://www.themeit.com/2003_haunted.htm" target="_blank">http://www.themeit.com/2003_ha unted.htm</a> Steve Davison, the Creative Director of DL Entertainment, was the wunderkind behind HMH, which was inspired by an idea from Tony Baxter. I would never consider Davison nor Baxter to be "sick" or "ignorant" or "pathetic." And the notion of Elfman's and Debney's delightful musical compositions to be suggestive of "raping Christmas" pretty much taints your entire argument. As if you weren't already doing a fine job of accomplishing that feat on your own.
Originally Posted By idleHands "Again, it's like putting a mustache on the mona lisa." Which you can see briefly, if you know where to look, inside 'Pinocchio's Daring Journey.'
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Absolutely correct idleHands. You win a pretzel with extra cheese! As for the same people making the same creative decisions, you don't need to name them. They are the same non-artists, the same corporate artisans, wishing they knew what it was like to be a real artist. But obviously their lack of respect for humanity means they never will.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Okay, give me one reason why it's preferable to desecrate these original works of art by Walt... it's like putting a mustache on the mona lisa.< Ed and Otown, I have a problem with the basis of this argument - that these attractions are "art". They are not. They're theme park attractions. Pirates is an exceptionally well done theme park attraction. But to compare it to the Mona Lisa is just silly. I can understand that you have an opinion that I don't share, but I can't understand why you're having such a hard time with the concept that Walt HIMSELF never made an attraction that was beyond changing. He made changes over and over again, some good and some bad, and not once did he set one of his attractions apart and say "THIS IS ART - IT'S PERFECT, DON'T CHANGE IT EVER!" He stated many times that one of the problems with film was that when it was in the can it was too late to make changes based on new technology or new story ideas. That was the great draw to a living campus like DL - he could tinker with it, taking out and adding forever. No, there is no argument that will convince me that these attractions are art. They are in your minds, hence your dismay that they're being changed. True, the Disney company of the past 10 years or so doesn't have the greatest record of making changes for the better. But it seems with the arrival of Rasulo and Ouimet that a corner has been turned. I wouldn't mind at least one more ride on the Pirates that I grew up on, but I can't wait to see the Jack Sparrow version!
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I guess I don't understand. Walt wanted to make people happy. HMH makes people happy... the majority of people. So why is that bad?
Originally Posted By YourPalEd This has nothing to do with Walt's wishes, this has to do with the values of the living, and respecting the unique. You are a belittler a nothing. You do not understand the difference, or ignore it for cheap monetary compensation. It has nothing to do with the nonfan, who has no right to be here, in actuality, and is not fooling anyone. Everyone knows you are here to belittle and control, but you are not a fan. Every word a nonfan of Walt's says is like a democrat voting in a republican primary. They tried it once in california and stopped because the children finally understood it was wrong. I think everyone knows by now it's wrong and you can see the only ones supporting it and their value system is of low moral standards basically. It's also why there isn't anyone who respects them in return, except other low baseless unimaginative types.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd I have an idea let's desicrate Walt and replace him with someone younger, just like Menudo!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<No, there is no argument that will convince me that these attractions are art. They are in your minds, hence your dismay that they're being changed.>> Ed is just yanking our collective chains. His posts may be performance art, but that is the only art in this thread. Disney's attractions show wonderful craftsmanship, but there is a difference between art and craft with the c and the f being foremost among them.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Ed is just yanking our collective chains>> It's fun, regardless. Hence my post last night.... I felt the fire dimming, so I added some more kindling. Hehe.
Originally Posted By idleHands "I think everyone knows by now it's wrong and you can see the only ones supporting it and their value system is of low moral standards basically." I think I understand now. These are the same folks who purchase Disney merchandise manufactured by Chinese sweat camp laborers, correct? It's the Circle of Lifeâ„¢. And it moves us all.
