Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I have confidence in the first two words. The rest, not so much. Wow I never knew not wanting your taxes raised was such a horrible thing." Contrary to popular belief, taxes are the price we pay to live in this country. In no small way, it's the price of freedom. The shame of it all is the very same people who claim patriotism as their watchword are the ones most reluctant to pay.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Wow I never knew not wanting your taxes raised was such a horrible thing.<< This just in ... <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/03/tax-revenues-post-biggest_n_250108.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...108.html</a> (DAR's favorite website) >>The numbers could hardly be more stark: Tax receipts are on pace to drop 18 percent this year, the biggest single-year decline since the Great Depression, while the federal deficit balloons to a record $1.8 trillion.<< >>The last time the government's revenues were this bleak, the year was 1932 in the midst of the Depression. "Our tax system is already inadequate to support the promises our government has made," said Eugene Steuerle, a former Treasury Department official in the Reagan administration who is now vice president of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. "This just adds to the problem."<<
Originally Posted By DAR I'll pay what I have to pay but don't make a promise during the election if you're not going to keep it, oh wait it's Obama so it's okay.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Obama would definitely pay a political price for raising taxes on anyone making less than 250k, after promising he wouldn't so explicitly. You can picture the attack ads now - it would be his version of "read my lips." There are certainly those who would accept it based on the national need (dare I say patriotism?), but many who would not. He might do better to raise taxes on 250K+ first. The right wing will still howl, of course, but AFAIK he was only talking about raising them back to 90's levels, when both the economy and the rich did JUST fine, thank you. Nothing like 50's levels (and thank you to whoever pointed them out). He might be able to raise enough revenue that way to at least slow the flow of red ink, particularly if the economy as a whole starts to grow again, even if slowly. Then we could have an honest debate (maybe? think we could?) about raising taxes on those below 250K if it seems necessary. Now that I've posited it, I actually wonder if we COULD have an honest debate about tax hikes on the middle class in today's media and political environment.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I'll pay what I have to pay but don't make a promise during the election if you're not going to keep it, oh wait it's Obama so it's okay." G--dammit DAR, don't start this crap again.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Obama would definitely pay a political price for raising taxes on anyone making less than 250k, after promising he wouldn't so explicitly. You can picture the attack ads now - it would be his version of "read my lips."*** I disagree, I think he might as well go for it. Why? Because the other side will make said attack ads in any case. Whether they're true or not is beside the point, you *know* they're going to claim it anyway.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo C'mon, even the non democratically elected idiot was given more time in easier circumstances.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo What I find sickening is the whack job right are willing to give up their liberties, but god forbid it may cost a little more. How christian is that? Hypocrits.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo sorry, I meant to say that I saw so many right wingers supporting the Patriot Act, but they are against this new bill. It does leave me scratching my head.
Originally Posted By Mr X Me too. How much is that military budget again? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure we could slash it a good 80% and still have the most powerful military on Earth.
Originally Posted By DAR We might but until we can those rocket suits from the GI Joe film it's not wise to cut any money.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo What about the fact that the cost of not doing it is even greater? Health care, education, and democracy should not be issues of convenience or treated as luxuries. It is shameful that if our country is the richest in the world, and many want to believe it is the greatest, then why are there so many areas where the US is subpar when compared to other countries (such as the track record on medicine, human rights, environmental protection etc.)? I want the US to be the greatest, but FAME costs, and right here is where you start pain, and sweat. Ooops sorry, thought I might try to lighten the load a little, but you get my point. I wonder how much money has been spent trying to enforce the Patriot Act?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***We might but until we can those rocket suits from the GI Joe film it's not wise to cut any money.*** Bull. We taxpayers pay an *insane* amount of money in order to retain our "world police" status, and it's high time someone put a stop to it (unfortunately, President Obama doesn't seem to be any more inclined to do so than any president has since Carter).
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Why? Because the other side will make said attack ads in any case. Whether they're true or not is beside the point, you *know* they're going to claim it anyway.> They can try. But it does make a difference to people who pay attention whether it's true or not. Factcheck and outfits like that do a pretty good job. The whackos will believe what they want. But with the moderates... it makes a difference whether the attack ads that say "Obama said he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone making less than 250K a year... and then he did" are true or not. If he does break that promise, justified or not, it's fair for the other side to point out he broke the promise.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>It is shameful that if our country is the richest in the world, and many want to believe it is the greatest, then why are there so many areas where the US is subpar when compared to other countries (such as the track record on medicine, human rights, environmental protection etc.)?<< Part of the issue is that, according to the right, we ARE the greatest country in the world, no matter how much we suck. It's something to do with God liking us better than all the other countries I think. PS - Jesus was an anti-business Socialist: <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2021:12-21:13;&version=9;" target="_blank">http://www.biblegateway.com/pa...rsion=9;</a>
Originally Posted By Mr X ***They can try. But it does make a difference to people who pay attention whether it's true or not. Factcheck and outfits like that do a pretty good job. The whackos will believe what they want.*** Fair point. I guess I'm just cynical about the way politics are done these days (I assume those lies do influence *some* voters or they wouldn't bother). In any case, I personally would have no problem with the President saying "look, you can all see how much worse things have become and we *must* take care of our most pressing problems now, and so I'm calling for a tax increase nearly across the boards but especially aimed at the highest earners in the capital gains arena since they can afford it and currently do not pay even close to their fair share as it stands now".
